[MXXX] EQ module and other things

[farfadetfarfelu]

- The dry wet control in the MXXX EQ is acting more like a dry/wet switch than a mix knob with the highpass lowpass, notch and bandpass filters (same in MFilter), this has to be a deliberate choice but why not a dry/wet knob that works with all filter modes ?

- It would be cool if the filters of the EQ had more self resonance capabilities, (or maybe add a filter module with higher Q values, an input gain knob, several overdrive/distortion sounds) ?

- Is there some limiting on the output of MXXX ? What is the LU meter loudness thing/modes exactly ?

- Is MXXX introducing some latency ?

- It might be interesting to have the ability to hide the signal chain in the MXXX GUI !

[abstractcats]

- It might be interesting to have the ability to hide the signal chain in the MXXX GUI !

Indeed! A great idea And, each item being used could be in a row, side by side and could be scrolled from side to side (instead of up and down, side to side is just a preference)

[MeldaProduction]

- The dry wet control in the MXXX EQ is acting more like a dry/wet switch than a mix knob with the highpass lowpass, notch and bandpass filters (same in MFilter), this has to be a deliberate choice but why not a dry/wet knob that works with all filter modes ?

But that is NOT POSSIBLE! Phase-shifts, remember? There is no such thing as dry/wet with filters, it can only be emulated. True dry/wet would result in some pretty weird effects.

- It would be cool if the filters of the EQ had more self resonance capabilities, (or maybe add a filter module with higher Q values, an input gain knob, several overdrive/distortion sounds) ?

I don't get it - this is exactly what MXXX is for - to make these "crazy" ideas easy to create - you just need to get some module for input gain, some saturator/distortion and an equalizer...

- Is there some limiting on the output of MXXX ? What is the LU meter loudness thing/modes exactly ?

No limiting (at least there shouldn't be ). LU is a EBU compliant loudness meter.

- Is MXXX introducing some latency ?

No, unless you use some processors with latency. Did you read the original email??? Read it again!

- It might be interesting to have the ability to hide the signal chain in the MXXX GUI !

Why???? You can use the line as any other line. Just right click on a processor and set its input from some different line... Or what am I missing??

[farfadetfarfelu]

- The dry wet control in the MXXX EQ is acting more like a dry/wet switch than a mix knob with the highpass lowpass, notch and bandpass filters (same in MFilter), this has to be a deliberate choice but why not a dry/wet knob that works with all filter modes ?

But that is NOT POSSIBLE! Phase-shifts, remember? There is no such thing as dry/wet with filters, it can only be emulated. True dry/wet would result in some pretty weird effects.

Well most other vst filters have a mix knob and it seems to work okay, for instance to let the clean pass behind a dirty wah/wah style bandpass filter. The effect is less present but the original signal is still fully mixed in.
Anyway it's not that important because the clean could be mixed in from another signal path in MXXX.

- It would be cool if the filters of the EQ had more self resonance capabilities, (or maybe add a filter module with higher Q values, an input gain knob, several overdrive/distortion sounds) ?

I don't get it - this is exactly what MXXX is for - to make these "crazy" ideas easy to create - you just need to get some module for input gain, some saturator/distortion and an equalizer...

Very true, actually i tried to make the filter self oscillate by using more gain before it and also several filters in series but it's still not really working, that's why i asked for more self resonance capabilities (when filters have enough internal feedback to produce whistling sounds a bit like an oscillator). I probably should not have mentionned the input gain and distortion, it's true it can be done with other modules.

- Is there some limiting on the output of MXXX ? What is the LU meter loudness thing/modes exactly ?

No limiting (at least there shouldn't be ). LU is a EBU compliant loudness meter.

Ok, thanks, i had no idea such a thing existed.

]- Is MXXX introducing some latency ?

No, unless you use some processors with latency. Did you read the original email??? Read it again!

hehe i read the paper again, so what are the processors with latency, linear phase EQ, freeform EQ ?
The latency doesn't seem to be reported to the host in Reaper but maybe it's not possible in a modular environnement such as MXXX ?

- It might be interesting to have the ability to hide the signal chain in the MXXX GUI !

Why???? You can use the line as any other line. Just right click on a processor and set its input from some different line... Or what am I missing??

Well, i meant to hide the whole signal chain (the 4 vertical lines with all the boxes for processors) - not only the side chain.
It's certainly not crucial, but can be interesting to have more space to show the effects controls, abstractcats suggestion above takes the idea even further with the vertical scrolling.

[MeldaProduction]

Very true, actually i tried to make the filter self oscillate by using more gain before it and also several filters in series but it's still not really working, that's why i asked for more self resonance capabilities (when filters have enough internal feedback to produce whistling sounds a bit like an oscillator). I probably should not have mentionned the input gain and distortion, it's true it can be done with other modules.

Aaaah, ok, so we can e.g. increase the Q range in band-pass module to say 100 ?

hehe i read the paper again, so what are the processors with latency, linear phase EQ, freeform EQ ?
The latency doesn't seem to be reported to the host in Reaper but maybe it's not possible in a modular environnement such as MXXX ?

Well, the compensation here would be really tricky. I'll think about it, but I'm not really sure... You know, everything connected to everything ...
Currently the processors with latency is:
linear phase eqs, freeform eq, spectral dynamics
harmonizer and granular are kind of tricky here - the latency may vary here
+ linear phase crossovers & upsampling as usual (but the latency here gets reported if main crossover is used, not the processor).

Well, i meant to hide the whole signal chain (the 4 vertical lines with all the boxes for processors) - not only the side chain.
It's certainly not crucial, but can be interesting to have more space to show the effects controls, abstractcats suggestion above takes the idea even further with the vertical scrolling.

Aaah. I was more like thinking about making the GUIs showable in an external window - e.g. shift+click would show a window with the processor's editor.
Anyway I don't really get the abstractcat's "side" idea.

[farfadetfarfelu]

Very true, actually i tried to make the filter self oscillate by using more gain before it and also several filters in series but it's still not really working, that's why i asked for more self resonance capabilities (when filters have enough internal feedback to produce whistling sounds a bit like an oscillator). I probably should not have mentionned the input gain and distortion, it's true it can be done with other modules.

Aaaah, ok, so we can e.g. increase the Q range in band-pass module to say 100 ?

Well i'm really looking forward to try that out. It could be interesting to have the increased Q range in Lowpass, highpass, bandpass and maybe even notch.

While we are talking about the filter, there's something that makes the bandpass a little annoying to work with : it's really lower in volume compared to the other filter modes because it only works by taking out part of the signal. One way to counteract this could be to link the gain/volume of the bandpass filter to the Q. When the Q goes up, the volume of the bandpass filter goes up to compensate for the frequencies that are lost.

hehe i read the paper again, so what are the processors with latency, linear phase EQ, freeform EQ ?
The latency doesn't seem to be reported to the host in Reaper but maybe it's not possible in a modular environnement such as MXXX ?

Well, the compensation here would be really tricky. I'll think about it, but I'm not really sure... You know, everything connected to everything ...
Currently the processors with latency is:
linear phase eqs, freeform eq, spectral dynamics
harmonizer and granular are kind of tricky here - the latency may vary here
+ linear phase crossovers & upsampling as usual (but the latency here gets reported if main crossover is used, not the processor).

ok thanks. Maybe a little sign could be added next to the names of the processors that add latency so that it is more obvious when building a signal chain.

Well, i meant to hide the whole signal chain (the 4 vertical lines with all the boxes for processors) - not only the side chain.
It's certainly not crucial, but can be interesting to have more space to show the effects controls, abstractcats suggestion above takes the idea even further with the vertical scrolling.

Aaah. I was more like thinking about making the GUIs showable in an external window - e.g. shift+click would show a window with the processor's editor.
Anyway I don't really get the abstractcat's "side" idea.

Sorry I made a mistake in my previous post, abstractcats was thinking about "horizontal" scrolling, not vertical. If i understand right, That's what he means by the processor GUIs being side by side.

Visually (with the signal chain hidden):

> Frequency bands - Meter <
> FX1 / FX2 / FX3 / FX4 ... <
> =================== < (horizontal scrolling bar)

The external windows has the advantage of having more space, but it can also be a complication to deal with several windows as there is already the modulator windows... tough choice, nothing is perfect.

[MeldaProduction]

Well i'm really looking forward to try that out. It could be interesting to have the increased Q range in Lowpass, highpass, bandpass and maybe even notch.

While we are talking about the filter, there's something that makes the bandpass a little annoying to work with : it's really lower in volume compared to the other filter modes because it only works by taking out part of the signal. One way to counteract this could be to link the gain/volume of the bandpass filter to the Q. When the Q goes up, the volume of the bandpass filter goes up to compensate for the frequencies that are lost.

Increased to 100, but only in the band pass - compatibility issues, I want the presets to be compatible with the separate plugins.

With the bandpass idea - absolutely not! You can do that in MXXX, but by default the eq should NOT do anything like that. Not mentioning it is impossible as it depends on the signal, so you can just add a compressor to that, but let's face it - you are using an eq, so you hardly want to have some hidden compressor in it!

ok thanks. Maybe a little sign could be added next to the names of the processors that add latency so that it is more obvious when building a signal chain.

Done

Sorry I made a mistake in my previous post, abstractcats was thinking about "horizontal" scrolling, not vertical. If i understand right, That's what he means by the processor GUIs being side by side.

Visually (with the signal chain hidden):

> Frequency bands - Meter <
> FX1 / FX2 / FX3 / FX4 ... <
> =================== < (horizontal scrolling bar)

The external windows has the advantage of having more space, but it can also be a complication to deal with several windows as there is already the modulator windows... tough choice, nothing is perfect.

Well I don't see a point here... This would just be a different interface - why on earth there would be 2 interfaces just differing in horizontal vs. vertical layout. Sorry, but this is no. I'll check the possibilities of the external windows, but this one makes no sense to me, especially considering the amount of work and problems.