Dongle or no dongle, that's the question!

[mcnoone]

i feel the poll would go the other way at gearslutz. That might not matter for KVR, but the folk there are just as valid potential customers as us.
for example if you do a poll there, logic always comes out as the most used host. Here it's in the middle or lower.
Just to give an example, and many people voice their complaint about NO dongle there.

I don't understand. Why would having Logic, have anything to do with making someone want a dongle?
I have Logic.
I don't want a dongle.

[Arglebargle]

i feel the poll would go the other way at gearslutz. That might not matter for KVR, but the folk there are just as valid potential customers as us.
for example if you do a poll there, logic always comes out as the most used host. Here it's in the middle or lower.
Just to give an example, and many people voice their complaint about NO dongle there.

I don't understand. Why would having Logic, have anything to do with making someone want a dongle?
I have Logic.
I don't want a dongle.

He's just saying, different communities have different preferences.

[ghettosynth]

"Do you like dongles?"

I don't like any copy protection that gives the consumer a worse experience than the pirates. See my sig below:

--Sean

I don't disagree with your sig. I prefer a simple serial number, or, if you must, a license file which has the purchasers name encoded.

But, I didn't think that was the question. Compare to more intrusive froms like C/R, I feel that the dongle facilitates the devs needs and gives me more of the features that I care about.

So, for me, utility(dongle) > utility(CR) >> utility (locked installs), that's all I'm saying.

A good example of the problem with C/R technology was when Sony purchased Acid from Sonic Foundary. It took them several years to provide a method for SF users to authorize their software. I don't use mine any longer, but, I wasn't able to use it for a few years. Had it been dongle based, that wouldn't have happened.

[audiojunkie]

Specific question: "Do you like Dongles?"
Specific Answer: "No"

They are all hassles (to varying degrees).

--Sean

[BERFAB]

The part you highlighted is basic deductive logic. It doesn't require data.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of both the word 'logic' and how statistics works then.

You cannot deduce anything for certain in the absence of data of some sort. Simply taking what you *think* will be the case and calling it fact is not how it works at all.

None of us have any data around sales or the motivations of buyers, so speculating really does not fill in the gaps left by a lack of solid information.

Last time. It's math. Of the entire group of people that possess a thing, a certain number may have come into possession of that thing illegally. If you stop or reduce the number of people that come into possession of the thing illegally, a greater percentage of all of the people that now possess that thing obtained it legally.

I believe we basically agree on the general concepts here, i.e. SALES themselves do not necessarily increase, and I agree that no dev has provided empirical evidence of such a result one way or the other. And further, the thing I really can't back up is whether dongles actually do decrease piracy. But I do know that if fewer people do steal a thing, then more of those (i.e. a higher percentage)that do possess it will have obtained it legally.

Cheers
-B

Edit
Ok, my model only holds 100% if the reduction in piracy is also 100% which I obviously have no proof of. I was also assuming (another big variable) that sales were flat. But you are correct in the event that a decrease in piracy was met by an equal or greater decrease in sales.

[robogone]

Last time. It's math.

No. It's not. If you perform mathematical functions with numbers you are *assuming* rather than actual numbers then the results are meaningless.

Of the entire group of people that possess a thing, a certain number may have come into possession of that thing illegally. If you stop or reduce the number of people that come into possession of the thing illegally, a greater percentage of all of the people that now possess that thing obtained it legally.

Yes, it *may* be the case. But you are working with no actual numbers here. Same as I said earlier - the speculation is pointless. This whole dongle argument is done without any kind of data. None. Zero. Zip. Drawing conclusions with no data is the sort of thing that we stopped doing with the advent of the Renaissance.

[BERFAB]

Last time. It's math.

No. It's not. If you perform mathematical functions with numbers you are *assuming* rather than actual numbers then the results are meaningless.

Of the entire group of people that possess a thing, a certain number may have come into possession of that thing illegally. If you stop or reduce the number of people that come into possession of the thing illegally, a greater percentage of all of the people that now possess that thing obtained it legally.

Yes, it *may* be the case. But you are working with no actual numbers here. Same as I said earlier - the speculation is pointless. This whole dongle argument is done without any kind of data. None. Zero. Zip. Drawing conclusions with no data is the sort of thing that we stopped doing with the advent of the Renaissance.

My edit crossed with your post, see above. I wasn't thinking that sales would go down, and obviously there's no evidence either way.

[robogone]

Just saying. Without numbers no one really knows.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[reusenoise]

Ok i found an old similar poll at gearslutz.

27 people would absolutely not use a dongle,

and it was combines like 80 or so that would with half of them not being a fan but would use them.

there you go.

the number of people that LIKE Dongles was about 30% higher than those that said no way.

I need to start a poll there to get a comparison perspective.

'Cos Gearslutz users are hardware fanatics

[careyletendre]

they dont stop piracy and i wont support such bullshit at my cost

Your naivety on the subject is clear. The Steinberg eLicenser hasn't been cracked in years. It most certainly does prevent piracy.

In fact it works so well that Steinberg bought the technology from Syncrosoft because of it's ability to protect software from piracy.

It is well documented that the last team to crack the eLicenser, H2O, said that it took so many man hours to do it that they will never consider doing it again. They [H2O] just did it to prove that it could be done.

That was back during the Cubase SX3 days, now they [Steinberg] are at version 6 and going stong, pirate free.

I'm not saying that this leads to increased sales, but, i think it's reasonably safe to assume so.

Cheers,

Carey

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[hibidy]

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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