Dongle or no dongle, that's the question!

[standalone]

I read your posts.

I can see the problem on some laptops, but desktops nowadays have so many USB ports (mine has ten on the back alone, plus four on the front) that it doesn't really matter.

I'd also have to challenge companies like Wacom in that the ports on your computer are all replicated through an internal hub, so in essence, ALL Wacoms are plugged into hubs.

I will say that eLicenser does say that the results using a hub are not guaranteed, and Cubase wouldn't load for me when I had my dongle connected to my hub, but it's also a very, very cheap hub (10 ports for $12).

I have my eLicenser and iLok dongles connected alongside an usb keyboard to a non-powered 5€ hub and everything works without a problem.

[mcnoone]

I have my eLicenser and iLok dongles connected alongside an usb keyboard to a non-powered 5€ hub and everything works without a problem.

Here's the thing.
Are you sure it's not causing a problem?
Can tests be done to show that there are no problems.
I mean slight problems that aren't noticed through normal means.
Problems that wouldn't normally be noticed, but might show to be so, using tests, and equipment.
Things, such as wear on the usb port, or if using a hub, with both a dongle and midi device into one port, will it cause any slight, or unnoticed troubles?
How sure can we be that "everything works without a problem"...without some kind of detailed professional testing into it.
Why would these companies always state in warranty, not to use them with hubs if there is no problem?
So those with 2 usb port laptops who use them already, with hardware that says not to use their stuff with hubs, are s**t outta luck, for getting anything with a dongle.
=lost sales.

[Ingonator]

I have my eLicenser and iLok dongles connected alongside an usb keyboard to a non-powered 5€ hub and everything works without a problem.

Here's the thing.
Are you sure it's not causing a problem?
Can tests be done to show that there are no problems.
I mean slight problems that aren't noticed through normal means.
Problems that wouldn't normally be noticed, but might show to be so, using tests, and equipment.
Things, such as wear on the usb port, or if using a hub, with both a dongle and midi device into one port, will it cause any slight, or unnoticed troubles?
How sure can we be that "everything works without a problem"...without some kind of detailed professional testing into it.
Why would these companies always state in warranty, not to use them with hubs if there is no problem?
So those with 2 usb port laptops who use them already, with hardware that says not to use their stuff with hubs, are s**t outta luck, for getting anything with a dongle.
=lost sales.

I got the KORG Legacy Collection Digital Edition around the beginning of 2006 and the box also included an USB dongle (Syncrosoft at that time, now eLicenser).
I am still using that one today and mostly connected to an USB Hub with no single problem so far.
A second dongle i got with the boxed version of Arturia Prophet V but i got all licenses on only one of them (from e.g. Waldorf, Xils Lab, Korg and Arturia). It's also no problem to transfer licenses from one to another dongle.


Ingo

[Lotuzia]

I have my eLicenser and iLok dongles connected alongside an usb keyboard to a non-powered 5€ hub and everything works without a problem.

Here's the thing.
Are you sure it's not causing a problem?
Can tests be done to show that there are no problems.
I mean slight problems that aren't noticed through normal means.
Problems that wouldn't normally be noticed, but might show to be so, using tests, and equipment.
Things, such as wear on the usb port, or if using a hub, with both a dongle and midi device into one port, will it cause any slight, or unnoticed troubles?
How sure can we be that "everything works without a problem"...without some kind of detailed professional testing into it.
Why would these companies always state in warranty, not to use them with hubs if there is no problem?
So those with 2 usb port laptops who use them already, with hardware that says not to use their stuff with hubs, are s**t outta luck, for getting anything with a dongle.
=lost sales.

I got the KORG Legacy Collection Digital Edition around the beginning of 2006 and the box also included an USB dongle (Syncrosoft at that time).
I am still using that one today and mostly connected to an USB Hub with no single problem so far.


Ingo

Yeah I have this one too Ingo

But I transferred all the licences on the Cubase one. ( little blue one ) So he's stil laying in the box. Just in case ..........

[standalone]

I have my eLicenser and iLok dongles connected alongside an usb keyboard to a non-powered 5€ hub and everything works without a problem.

Here's the thing.
Are you sure it's not causing a problem?
Can tests be done to show that there are no problems.
I mean slight problems that aren't noticed through normal means.
Problems that wouldn't normally be noticed, but might show to be so, using tests, and equipment.
Things, such as wear on the usb port, or if using a hub, with both a dongle and midi device into one port, will it cause any slight, or unnoticed troubles?
How sure can we be that "everything works without a problem"...without some kind of detailed professional testing into it.

Problems so small that I have never noticed them and that they have never caused me any trouble? Maybe.

In general, I prefer to worry about things like someone I love taking a plane rather than about things related to my computer. Makes more sense to me. If one day I realize that I can't sleep thinking of the fate that awaits my dongles and usb connections.........that day I'll know that I had totally lost focus.

[Ingonator]

Yeah I have this one too Ingo

But I transferred all the licences on the Cubase one. ( little blue one ) So he's stil laying in the box. Just in case ..........

Hi Laurent,

i got a second one from the boxed version of Arturia Prophet V. Currently i am using the one from Korg only. Had a third one from Arturia Jupiter 8V but sold that synth (+ dongle) last year.


Ingo

[mcnoone]

I am still using that one today and mostly connected to an USB Hub with no single problem so far.

How do you know for sure there's not a problem?
Maybe it's causing some problem you aren't aware of.
Maybe you should have it inspected by a professional computer specialist to be sure.

[Jace-BeOS]

Because hubs add an extra layer of uncertainty, developers don't promise that you can use their products on hubs. So the first step you take when you have problems is to take the hub out of the equation. That's all there is to it.

This is more complicated with computers that provide many USB ports on them by way of internal hubs. I read the USB specification doesn't allow for this but that it's done constantly any way.

[mcnoone]

Because hubs add an extra layer of uncertainty, developers don't promise that you can use their products on hubs. So the first step you take when you have problems is to take the hub out of the equation. That's all there is to it.
This is more complicated with computers that provide many USB ports on them by way of internal hubs. I read the USB specification doesn't allow for this but that it's done constantly any way.

But what if you have only 2 usb ports, and those are being used by hardware that states not to use a usb hub with them?
Those details where left out of your reply.

[braj]

Most of the issues I've seen with hubs are when they are bus powered and not getting enough juice. Using a good powered hub is the only way to go IMO though I still don't want a dongle.

[Ingonator]

I am still using that one today and mostly connected to an USB Hub with no single problem so far.

How do you know for sure there's not a problem?
Maybe it's causing some problem you aren't aware of.
Maybe you should have it inspected by a professional computer specialist to be sure.

are you kidding me? That thing is just to store the license and more than 6 years without having trouble with the license on more than one computer is not enough for you? As i told i have also a second eLicenser which i got from Arturia Prophet V. Just to be sure i soon want to transfer the licenses to that other one as the first one should have done his job after 6 years...


Ingo

[mcnoone]

In general, I prefer to worry about things like someone I love taking a plane rather than about things related to my computer.

Oh sorry bout that.
Don't worry over it too much.
I believe plane travel is very safe.
I'd worry more on the drive back from the airport though.

[mcnoone]

are you kidding me?
Ingo

We have a winner here!
Either way, I'm not using a usb hub.
If it's powered, then you have to plug it in with the same plug as the computer.
Then there's a possible noise factor coming from the extra plug.
...or I'm possibly slipping into some form of compulsive obsessive disorder...it's possible. To much coffee, not enuf sleep, and food.
Well thanks for the help people.
Bye.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Not had any problems at all myself with using dongles and all the dongles I have are still working fine. I have not had to use any of them with a hub though so can not comment there. To be honest I like the option of dongle protection or whatever else as its more of a PITA having half dongled and half other methods of protection. You know give us users/customers a choice where dongles are involved I think is the way forwards but the ideal would be no copy protection (but that is just the ideal and not a reality and probably never will be)

My 2 pence for what its worth, Best to all as always

Dean

[braj]

Yeah I'm not liking hubs at all. I worked in software qa and I can tell you strange unexpected behavior and crashes can come from hubs, even the best ones, and two identical hubs can behave differently too. I just rather avoid them and limit my usb devices. I even run my 2 usb midi keyboards through a MIDI interface connected using just one plug to avoid hub issues. I'm pretty sure a hub was responsible for killing a port on my current machine too. The less usb devices the better from my experience, and especially don't use hubs if you can avoid them. That at least for me is a big -1 for dongles regardless if there is a chance they themselves will be compromised. Plus it can be physically stolen. My inlaws in the same neighborhood were robbed twice in one year, so for me that is a real concern.