Cakewalk A-800PRO: Are the shortened keys a problem for serious playing?

[Peter999]

Korg needs to start offering custom modular left-hand control sections. Users should be able to order whatever modular controls they want, and these should be easy to just plug in.

This would be the solution! An exchangeable modular pitchbender/modwheel unit! Great idea! Then they could offer these standard modules:

- a classic korg 4-direction joystick
- oberheim levers (great for guitar-style playing)
- classic wheels-duo

It should be a standardized module-interface so that third party manufacturers could build and sell their own special modulation-modules which simply could be plugged in then (same concept as api lunchbox).

Korg, please read!

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[Gonga]

Good idea. Some players like to be able to disconnect the spring from the stick too, another thing the X-Station can do.

[himalaya]

because I can't stand the obligate wheels.

So, I'm not the only one after all.

I love my pitch sticks/joysticks too.

What are you using then?

For pitch/mod stick - the one in my Roland XP80
For a joytsick of sorts - the one in Novation (can't remember its model number. It's at a remote location now, it's one of the original two octave ones without the spring mechanism switch).

You simply can't do some playing styles with wheels, they really are just "slow-hand" controllers, nothing for fast pitch vibratos and combined pitch/modulation guitar-style orgies.

Exactly my argument too. Mind you, I just had a chance to play with Moog Voyager XL, and the wheels on this are superb! The pitch wheel has a very deep finger groove and the spring is very heavy, so it springs back extremely fast. i could do little pitch bends as I'm used to on my XP - just push the stick with one finger extremely fast and let go - this has worked beautifully on the Voyager XL too. Still, two wheels can't match a combined controller like a mod stick or a joystick.

[Peter999]

Maybe I must try the Novation nevertheless at occasion and check how their version of the joystick feels

Apart from the joystick I also love the Oberheim levers, since you can do combined mod/pitch modulations, and handle the levers a bit like a guitar. With the middle finger you operate the (left) modulation lever (pull it down for modulation), with the index finger you pull down the right lever for pitch up (yes, it's vice versa), and with the thumb you push it up for pitch down. The advantage over a joystick is that modulation and pitch are clearly separated (so can be precisely controlled individually), but neverthelees they can be used combined with ease; and you have excellent control over pitch, more precise than with a joystick - coparable to a wheel - but way better suited for fast vibrato style pitch modulations.

It's a pity that these levers haven't been used anymore since.

[Gonga]

Yeah, the fingers of the left hand are rendered lifeless by synth designers. It's a stupid shame. The way I use a pitch stick is so intense, that I can't use the Y axis a lot, it just interferes with the precision of the pitch. I always use a pedal - whether for volume, or sync sweep, wah, whatever. When Jan Hammer had his Powell Probe built he had a nice rounded end built up for him to control the instrument, with a spring-loaded lever for his middle finger beneath the 2 wheels. He used that lever for a "whammy bar," which today is unnecessary because so many synths now permit you to program the upward and downward bends independantly. But to have single-axis sticks available for the other fingers to control other parameters is the way to go imo.

[Peter999]

I completely agree on this. I simply can't understand why the (at least imho) really not very usable wheels duo is the standard controller unit built in in almost every midi keyboard. No development since 1970.

[lfm]

I completely agree on this. I simply can't understand why the (at least imho) really not very usable wheels duo is the standard controller unit built in in almost every midi keyboard. No development since 1970.

I beg to differ.
One size does not fit all.

Modulation wheel that does not return is much more useful working with computer and sample libraries. So many expression modes available that require this - attack for strings and other.

I got rid of otherwise excellent keyboard Roland D-50 because of the stick. I still don't like it on the PCR800, but has programmed a fader for it instead. The stick is darn too heavy on PCR800 as well.

I don't mind stick for pitch though.

[himalaya]

Modulation wheel that does not return is much more useful working with computer and sample libraries. So many expression modes available that require this - attack for strings and other.

That's true. For this reason there is plenty of room for improvement to the old mod stick idea. Novation's solution was to offer a switch which would disengage the spring mechanism. They had thought about it. But what happened then...they have abandoned the joystick and went back to 'two wheels' design with their latest midi controllers - a step backwards in my view. Perhaps this was dictated by the production budget, but still...

[Peter999]

Modulation wheel that does not return is much more useful working with computer and sample libraries. So many expression modes available that require this - attack for strings and other.

That's true. For this reason there is plenty of room for improvement to the old mod stick idea. Novation's solution was to offer a switch which would disengage the spring mechanism. They had thought about it. But what happened then...they have abandoned the joystick and went back to 'two wheels' design with their latest midi controllers - a step backwards in my view. Perhaps this was dictated by the production budget, but still...

Why not built in both? A center spring joystick for playing expression and a non-spring modulation wheel for sample-switches/fixed modulation additionally. Then you could always reach the one suited for the given need.

[himalaya]

Definitely, and it has been done. Roland had the wheels and the mod stick in their master keyboards back in the 90s. This, as always is dictated by the budget, so I really doubt that we will ever see the two implemented at the same time in this day and age, as everything is done on the cheap nowadays.

My XP80 is rather nicely designed in that, just above the mod stick, there are two data sliders which I assign to various parameters when needed. The benefit of this arrangement (as opposed to using the control faders on a midi keyboard - positioned away from the mod stick) is that they are in easy reach of the mod stick and so I can use the two at the same time (my hand does not need to jump all over the keyboard case to access first the mod stick/wheels, then the faders). If my XP80 dies, I'm planning to buy another one just for this.

[Peter999]

as everything is done on the cheap nowadays.

yes, unfortunately...