Native Instruments Maschine Discontinued ??

[MikeCL]

This is why I hate Native Instruments. They can actually make some very good plugins/hardware, but their complete indifference to the lifespan of their products is absolutely disgusting. Pro-53, B4, Vokator, Intakt...

I mean, I realize that they just eventually roll all of those products into another product (like beatmangling into Kontakt), but sometimes having software dedicated to particular functions makes the workflow that much more productive. Otherwise, why don't they just release a single plugin: ReakKontaktBattSynthMaschineRig. A fully fledged DIY synth/sampler/drum machine/guitar amp/convolution reverb with a sequencer whose installation takes up 20 GB of HD space and comes with a 200 GB library that takes a week and a half to install.

Yep this puts me off too I can see if say they don't want to change the program for another OS however B4 II was not that old and poof it's gone like many other NI products.

[bunnywrench]

This is why I hate Native Instruments. They can actually make some very good plugins/hardware, but their complete indifference to the lifespan of their products is absolutely disgusting. Pro-53, B4, Vokator, Intakt...

Buying software doesn't give you a right to lifetime updates. Yes, it sucks when things get discontinued but some software just isn't worth updating and it's not like the old software stops working. All of those discontinued products still work today with the latest OSes on 64bit systems.

And NI's past treatment of defunct products has shown that they generally maintain functionality in one form or another. B4 and Akoustic Pianos were essentially reincarnated as Kontakt soundpacks (Vintage Organs and the Piano series) and are now rolled into Komplete. Ditto Spektral Delay and Vokator, whose functionality is mimicked and exceeded by various Reaktor ensembles.

[Uncle E]

Yep this puts me off too I can see if say they don't want to change the program for another OS however B4 II was not that old and poof it's gone like many other NI products.

B4 II was ancient! Personally, I prefer the Vintage Organs Kontakt library.

[aMUSEd]

And NI's past treatment of defunct products has shown that they generally maintain functionality in one form or another. B4 and Akoustic Pianos were essentially reincarnated as Kontakt soundpacks (Vintage Organs and the Piano series) and are now rolled into Komplete. Ditto Spektral Delay and Vokator, whose functionality is mimicked and exceeded by various Reaktor ensembles.

Not really. They completely messed up with Akoustic Pianos by not offering the new version to existing owners even though it's the identical library but just split into 4 boxes so no "maintained functionality" there (at least not for AP owners). B4 was not replaced by any library - a sampled instrument is no replacement for one that models the original and generates its own sound. And although there is a third party Spectral Delay alike Reaktor ensemble it wasn't developed by NI (nor does it exceed it functionally) so you would have to pay again for it and there is nothing that really replaces Vokator.

[SadPuppyBlues]

Again, there's absolutely no basis for this "discontinue" talk (as much as some sour Kore users might love to spread false rumors) as already pointed out above.

History is no basis, huh?

If a girl has constantly cheated on you in the past, it's no basis for assuming she's doing it again when she starts acting just like last time?

[bunnywrench]

B4 was not replaced by any library - a sampled instrument is no replacement for one that models the original and generates its own sound.

lol B4 is sample based. It was not primarily modeling based. Vintage Organs is a much more powerful successor to B4:

"I just wanted to point out that B4 and Vintage Organs are technically much closer than many of you might think, because both draw on individual tonewheel samples to authentically simulate the sound. B4 was not primarily modelling-based, and neither is Vintage Organs based on conventional multi-samples."

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... ostcount=5

And although there is a third party Spectral Delay alike Reaktor ensemble it wasn't developed by NI (nor does it exceed it functionally) so you would have to pay again for it and there is nothing that really replaces Vokator.

There are too many excellent Reaktor ensembles to mention them all. As for Spektral Delay, take a look at Prism FX ensemble and The Mouth for Vokator.

[Hink]

Yep this puts me off too I can see if say they don't want to change the program for another OS however B4 II was not that old and poof it's gone like many other NI products.

B4 II was ancient! Personally, I prefer the Vintage Organs Kontakt library.

B4 was my 1st vst instrument, B4II is indeed ancient but I have it in so many projects over so many years and I know it so well there is no reason for me to replace it with Vintage Organs (though my DAW came with a NI Bundle). If I were to decide to replace B4 for another Hammond organ tone it would have it's own real keyboard(s) and not be virtual. Until then B4 works for me (with the radial re-amper I'm seconds away from running B4II through any of my tube amps too)

[deastman]

B4 was not replaced by any library - a sampled instrument is no replacement for one that models the original and generates its own sound.

lol B4 is sample based. It was not primarily modeling based. Vintage Organs is a much more powerful successor to B4:

"I just wanted to point out that B4 and Vintage Organs are technically much closer than many of you might think, because both draw on individual tonewheel samples to authentically simulate the sound. B4 was not primarily modelling-based, and neither is Vintage Organs based on conventional multi-samples."

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... ostcount=5

And although there is a third party Spectral Delay alike Reaktor ensemble it wasn't developed by NI (nor does it exceed it functionally) so you would have to pay again for it and there is nothing that really replaces Vokator.

There are too many excellent Reaktor ensembles to mention them all. As for Spektral Delay, take a look at Prism FX ensemble and The Mouth for Vokator.

I'm actually shocked to read this! I always assumed B4 to be 100% synthesis.

[zvenx]

so did I.
rsp

[Hink]

B4 was not replaced by any library - a sampled instrument is no replacement for one that models the original and generates its own sound.

lol B4 is sample based. It was not primarily modeling based. Vintage Organs is a much more powerful successor to B4:

"I just wanted to point out that B4 and Vintage Organs are technically much closer than many of you might think, because both draw on individual tonewheel samples to authentically simulate the sound. B4 was not primarily modelling-based, and neither is Vintage Organs based on conventional multi-samples."

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... ostcount=5

And although there is a third party Spectral Delay alike Reaktor ensemble it wasn't developed by NI (nor does it exceed it functionally) so you would have to pay again for it and there is nothing that really replaces Vokator.

There are too many excellent Reaktor ensembles to mention them all. As for Spektral Delay, take a look at Prism FX ensemble and The Mouth for Vokator.

I'm actually shocked to read this! I always assumed B4 to be 100% synthesis.

I'm far more puzzled by the conclusions drawn from that one post. Primarily is a huge hint folks, why dont you guys read what ew has to say about it on the NI board before jumping to conclusions. This is in a thread asking where the samples are stored

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... hp?t=55865

Tical wrote:
As far as I can tell B4 is not a sample-based unit but sort of a specialized synth.

Correct. The B4 is nine sine wave oscillators for each manual, with each oscillator responding to a specific foot setting (drawbar).

edit: here's another

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... hp?t=89932

or how about direct from the manual

http://www.native-instruments.com/filea ... nglish.pdf

It is important to note that the B4 is not another sampled organ, but a complete software model of the tonal characteristics of the original tonewheel and rotating speaker and cabinet system. Effects like harmonic foldback (tones repeating in octaves at the high and low extremes of the keyboard) and loudness robbing (the same tone triggered with multiple keys "compressing" the tone volume) are faithfully reproduced as critical characteristics of the instrument. This attention to the details of sound production make the B4 a stunningly realistic and useful musical instrument.

scroll down enough in the manual to find a signal flow chart

[Uncle E]

Not really. They completely messed up with Akoustic Pianos by not offering the new version to existing owners even though it's the identical library but just split into 4 boxes so no "maintained functionality" there (at least not for AP owners). B4 was not replaced by any library - a sampled instrument is no replacement for one that models the original and generates its own sound. And although there is a third party Spectral Delay alike Reaktor ensemble it wasn't developed by NI (nor does it exceed it functionally) so you would have to pay again for it and there is nothing that really replaces Vokator.

Agreed on all these points, especially Vokator which was a totally underrated and underutilized synth above and beyond its vocoder capabilities.

[aMUSEd]

Yes I mainly use it as a synth and effect more than as a vocoder myself.

[Dewdman42]

a lot of people are totally disspointed with NI for dropping the ball on B4. The new thing, is anything but B4III, its just another sample library with some effects. B4 was something special, real modeling. B4II improved on it a lot, but they screwed up the distortion, and leslie could still be improved. THey should have made B4III the ultimate modeled organ with those issues fixed, but instead they regressed to yet another mediocre sample library based on kontakt engine.

Unfortunately NI has not really come out with anything innovative in quite some time. they are all about selling sample libraries now.

[deastman]

Unfortunately NI has not really come out with anything innovative in quite some time. they are all about selling sample libraries now.

I thought Razor was pretty damn cool, and a compelling indicator of what recent changes to Reaktor are capable of.

[Uncle E]

a lot of people are totally disspointed with NI for dropping the ball on B4. The new thing, is anything but B4III, its just another sample library with some effects. B4 was something special, real modeling. B4II improved on it a lot, but they screwed up the distortion, and leslie could still be improved. THey should have made B4III the ultimate modeled organ with those issues fixed, but instead they regressed to yet another mediocre sample library based on kontakt engine.

I do agree that a B4 III could have been spectacular. I also agree that B4 was special for being real modeling, however I don't think the actual resulting sound quality was special. The Scope B4000, which is also real modeling, sounds much more like a real B3 to me.

Vintage Organs, while not fully modeled, is more than simply a "mediocre sample library" and I for one think it sounds more like a real B3 than B4 and B4 II do.