Native Instruments Maschine Discontinued ??

[Hink]

Vintage Organs, while not fully modeled, is more than simply a "mediocre sample library" and I for one think it sounds more like a real B3 than B4 and B4 II do.

As I had an embarrassing moment today when I had an issue with my power amp I realized that the number one rule in what we do (doesn't matter what genre, style really) is never underestimate the power of human error. Every ying has it's yang so the opposite must be true as well which makes me question whether or not the margin of error or skill might make the difference one might hear between the two rather moot.

So I'll ask you, if I really like B4II (which I do), I have kontact though I dont use it (that whole 10th anniversary thing at pc-audiolabs gave me some cool freebies)...would getting vintage organs blow me away and be a must have? Will I suffer any workflow issues that might hinder me being so comfortable with B4II? Asking you as a salesman and coming from an exsalesman who used this approach a lot, what real world benefits will I gain? (or lose for that matter) Not features, but actual benefits.

hell I might have vintage organs and not even know it, I barely even have looked at the freebies

[Dewdman42]

Well that is why NI should have furthered their development to further improve their modeling. Instead they regressed. The vintage organs sucks. Nobody I know that cares a lot about hammond will touch it with a ten foot pole. Vintage organs is good for guitar players and producers that just need a quick and simple hammond like sound mixed into their mix. But anyone who knows anything about playing hammond knows that the real beauty of a hammond is the nuance of playing it, which simply is not provided by VO sample lib.

[Hink]

I cant speak to whether or not vintage organs is any good and tbh I have mixed emotions about a B4III. Most of me says, if it aint broke and for me it aint broke. The funny thing is I'm really more of the variety you say VO is for though I do play my own organ* parts (typically with a Roland A33)

*what the hell, it's about time the "quoted out of context" thread got bumped

[ew]

B4 was not replaced by any library - a sampled instrument is no replacement for one that models the original and generates its own sound.

lol B4 is sample based. It was not primarily modeling based. Vintage Organs is a much more powerful successor to B4:

"I just wanted to point out that B4 and Vintage Organs are technically much closer than many of you might think, because both draw on individual tonewheel samples to authentically simulate the sound. B4 was not primarily modelling-based, and neither is Vintage Organs based on conventional multi-samples."

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... ostcount=5

Ah- I think you're reading much more into that than Thomas intended.

And although there is a third party Spectral Delay alike Reaktor ensemble it wasn't developed by NI (nor does it exceed it functionally) so you would have to pay again for it and there is nothing that really replaces Vokator.

There are too many excellent Reaktor ensembles to mention them all. As for Spektral Delay, take a look at Prism FX ensemble and The Mouth for Vokator.

Ah- I'll disagree with you here as well. Spektral Delay is still a one of a kind effect- the only thing that comes close is iZoptope's Spectron. As much as I like Ernest's efforts to reproduce it in Reaktor, it falls short. And, Vokator was/is an immensely powerful vocoder/synth combo that doesn't have any real competition to this day.

Why were they dropped? Simple economics for the most part. B4/B4 II (and Pro-52/53) had the oldest code in the NI library; they were among the very first virtual instruments. Bringing them up to speed to deal with 64 bit OSes and the like was just too cost prohibitive.

As far as Spektral Delay and Vokator go, they never were big sellers, not even when they were new.

ew

[Bronto Scorpio]

As far as Spektral Delay and Vokator go, they never were big sellers, not even when they were new.

I really hope they bring them back someday though. The market for unusual stuff seems to be bigger these days

Cheers
Dennis

[bunnywrench]

B4 was something special, real modeling.

B4 used samples for the tonewheels.

[Dewdman42]

actually there is nothing wrong with using samples for the tone wheels and still calling it modeling. That is not the same as sampling the overall instrument. Using wavetables (ie, tonewheel samples), and then building up tones the way a real hammond does, with levers that control the way the tonewheels sound together....that is in fact physical "modeling" of the overall instrument, even if the tonewheels themselves are not modeled at a microscopic level.

There are many other kinds of modelers out there which use some small amount of sampling, in the form of wavtables for some part of it, or perhaps IR's, and yet there is substantial physical modeling layered on top of that which creates not only realism; but nuance, the ability to make every note not sound like a machine gun.

Tonewheels are not sine waves, physically modeling them totally without samples would be quite difficult, and you would not easily get the same authentic tone that you get for the classic organs that B4II provides.

[aMUSEd]

actually there is nothing wrong with using samples for the tone wheels and still calling it modeling. That is not the same as sampling the overall instrument. Using wavetables (ie, tonewheel samples), and then building up tones the way a real hammond does, with levers that control the way the tonewheels sound together....that is in fact physical "modeling" of the overall instrument, even if the tonewheels themselves are not modeled at a microscopic level.

There are many other kinds of modelers out there which use some small amount of sampling, in the form of wavtables for some part of it, or perhaps IR's, and yet there is substantial physical modeling layered on top of that which creates not only realism; but nuance, the ability to make every note not sound like a machine gun.

Tonewheels are not sine waves, physically modeling them totally without samples would be quite difficult, and you would not easily get the same authentic tone that you get for the classic organs that B4II provides.

Yes that's what they did - just as many Tassman acoustic instrument models use IR's as exciters.

[hibidy]

edit: fell hard

[bunnywrench]

Again, there's absolutely no basis for this "discontinue" talk (as much as some sour Kore users might love to spread false rumors) as already pointed out above.

History is no basis, huh?

If a girl has constantly cheated on you in the past, it's no basis for assuming she's doing it again when she starts acting just like last time?

Alot of premature belly aching on display here for products that still work, and in some cases were replaced.

People are upset about Kore being discontinued, so they're exaggerating everything else for the sake of leverage - painting NI as the evil empire etc. Stupid.

Also, NI only recently bought out a venture capitalist who had a large stake in the company. The, ahem, "slash & burn" ( ) policy may have been attributable to the money-men. Those who want to get all melodramatic about the company and every minutiae relating to it's activities would do well to keep that tidbit in their equations.

All this bluster for products that still work?

Kore butthurt is butthurt.

[hibidy]

A new NI rep said hi here last year and hasn't been heard from since!

I'm still here, just lurking

With regard to the topic in hand - the future of Maschine is assured. You can have a look at details of the recently announced and forthcoming 1.8 update here: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... hp?t=80682

I'm going with this and editing my other post (honestly, being the poster man for ADHD isn't a good thing )

[bunnywrench]

There is no indication of there being any new hardware, if at all, anytime soon other than pure speculation. The OP of this thread should do the right thing and correct the title of this thread and stop perpetuating false rumors.

NI has made it explicitly clear that there priority is for existing Maschine hardware to always remain compatible even if a new hardware does become a reality:

6/8/12:
"ray2002 wrote: Are there plans for a new Maschine hardware controller in the future?

We are of course always looking into ideas for developing the Maschine hardware. However, it's important to note that current compatibility with the existing controllers will always remain an important focus for us."

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... stcount=10

[hibidy]

edit, I'm worse than normal today

[hibidy]

Cool bunny, thanks!

[Hink]

B4 was something special, real modeling.

B4 used samples for the tonewheels.

have you looked in the folder at those samples (they are TwO)? When I bought B4 (the first B4) back in the day I bought those tonewheels as an add on. So you see B4 is not as you claim sampled, slice it any way you like it dude you're simply misread the info.

FWIW I'm not belly aching about anything, in fact the exact opposite. I was supporting B4II as it's something I use often and like very much