Hi folks,
I'm building a funk bass and need to insert a sample player for a slap sound. The idea is to mix a slap sample (triggered once per note) and a basic bass sound (oscillator/waveform). I tried the MuSampla for the slap sample and it works.
The problem is, it shouldn't follow the note's key! MuSampla should simple play the sample with the same sampled key every time a note event occurs. I already tried an inverted modulation mapper on MuSampla's pitch input, but this isn't sufficient. I guess it's very simple but I have no idea how to do this.
Any idea?
Simple sample ;-) player inside MuX
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- KVRist
- 409 posts since 26 Jul, 2010 from Germany
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
Add another track where you add only the slap sample for every bass note you want slapped 
But doesn't it sound unnatural when you use the same slap sample pitch for various bass notes?
But doesn't it sound unnatural when you use the same slap sample pitch for various bass notes?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 409 posts since 26 Jul, 2010 from Germany
Thank you for your suggestion. A separate track is possible, but I prefer a single module / track (it's more handy). The slap sound occurs only in very high velocities, so you can control the sound by only on trackfluffy_little_something wrote:Add another track where you add only the slap sample for every bass note you want slapped
When analysing some funk bass tracks I noticed, that the slap sound doesn't follow (exactly) the key pitch. It sounds unnatural (more synth-like) when the slap sound depends directly on note's key. So ...fluffy_little_something wrote:But doesn't it sound unnatural when you use the same slap sample pitch for various bass notes?
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
Maybe you could look at how the drumkits were done, there you have the same sound and pitch regardless of octave.
Or hire Marcus Miller
PS: How about using a Multisample Player where you put that same sound on every note?
Or hire Marcus Miller
PS: How about using a Multisample Player where you put that same sound on every note?
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- KVRian
- 855 posts since 3 Mar, 2009
OK, this seems to work:
- in the sample player set the pitch (the number field next to the pitch knob to 6000
- add a Note to Modulation module and connect it to Event Input (blue) and Pitch of the sample player (green)
- open the Note to Mod module and tick Key = Bipolar
- double click the green cable to the Pitch input of the sample player and set amplitude = -100.
You should get constant pitch over the keyboard.
Now set the pitch you need in the sample player using octave/transpose.
If this needs to be level faded in/out over the keyboard, use a multi sampla and set fade in/out for the required range. I have done that before and it works (see the keyclick in the Wurly patch).
- in the sample player set the pitch (the number field next to the pitch knob to 6000
- add a Note to Modulation module and connect it to Event Input (blue) and Pitch of the sample player (green)
- open the Note to Mod module and tick Key = Bipolar
- double click the green cable to the Pitch input of the sample player and set amplitude = -100.
You should get constant pitch over the keyboard.
Now set the pitch you need in the sample player using octave/transpose.
If this needs to be level faded in/out over the keyboard, use a multi sampla and set fade in/out for the required range. I have done that before and it works (see the keyclick in the Wurly patch).
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
Interesting solution. How did you think of that?
I suppose it helps to knows what all those parameters mean and do. Unfortunately, with every other parameter in Mulab modules I don't know and thus either ignore them altogether or accidentally find out what effect they have, without understanding it
I suppose it helps to knows what all those parameters mean and do. Unfortunately, with every other parameter in Mulab modules I don't know and thus either ignore them altogether or accidentally find out what effect they have, without understanding it
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- Banned
- 897 posts since 8 Jan, 2005 from Detroit
off you go to rtfm no0b!
no really, you need to experiment. maybe read a book on modular synthesis... or even get ahold of an old analog keyboard and just play until you understand what a signal path is and what various components do and what a modulation source is and how every component can be modulated etc then you can begin to understand how and why
no really, you need to experiment. maybe read a book on modular synthesis... or even get ahold of an old analog keyboard and just play until you understand what a signal path is and what various components do and what a modulation source is and how every component can be modulated etc then you can begin to understand how and why
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- KVRian
- 855 posts since 3 Mar, 2009
Actually my first idea was to not connect the sampler to the event input. But this only works for osc, which will constantly play C3 (i believe). Doesn't work with a one shot sample.
I have done patches where a vibrato only comes in if you play higher than C4. So i know about keytrack etc.
What i had to check was, if the pitch modulation range in the sampler/osc together with the keytrack range was enough to get equal pitch. I tried and it worked ...
But then i like to experiment. I have done hundreds of patches, and believe it or not, in most cases i start with an empty MUX.
So, i could say that i do know what most parameters do and how to abuse them
(my latest experiments: doing math with modulation. Pure fun!)
I have done patches where a vibrato only comes in if you play higher than C4. So i know about keytrack etc.
What i had to check was, if the pitch modulation range in the sampler/osc together with the keytrack range was enough to get equal pitch. I tried and it worked ...
But then i like to experiment. I have done hundreds of patches, and believe it or not, in most cases i start with an empty MUX.
So, i could say that i do know what most parameters do and how to abuse them
(my latest experiments: doing math with modulation. Pure fun!)
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
Well, I use Mulab mostly as a DAW, not so much because of the modular synths. I am more interested in music as such, not in trying to find out if and how it is possible to emulate every little detail of a certain instrument, I am not ambitious enough for that, especially since there is no complete Mulab manual explaining every parameter. Thus I use mostly plugins for sounds.> DiGiT < wrote:off you go to rtfm no0b!
no really, you need to experiment. maybe read a book on modular synthesis... or even get ahold of an old analog keyboard and just play until you understand what a signal path is and what various components do and what a modulation source is and how every component can be modulated etc then you can begin to understand how and why
I was just wondering how Andreas thought of that solution...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 409 posts since 26 Jul, 2010 from Germany
Well, I got a workaround!
I tried a second modulation mapper which amplifies the inverted modulation signal in the pitch modulation path. So I can pull the resulting modulation down to zero and even invert it. In the end a bit of modulation sounds more natural than no mod. But I'm still wondering that there is apparently no "knob" in MuSampla for turning off following the key of note events.
If you are interested I will upload it as patch to KVR when finished. It's a fine bass with a growing slap sound in the very upper velocity range.
I also started using MuLab as DAW using VST and samples. But I see sometimes modeling an instrument is much more efficient and compact.
I think I tasted blood ...
But I fully agree to FLS that there is behaviour in modules that isn't explained (knobs, inputs, outputs) in the MuLab docs, which I guess would cost half a day to describe for an experienced MuLaborartist.
@Andreas: Thank you for your detailled approach. I will experiment with it. Learning by doing ...
BTW: How do you "display" the results of your "math with modulation"? Sometimes I would like to monitor a modulation signal.
I tried a second modulation mapper which amplifies the inverted modulation signal in the pitch modulation path. So I can pull the resulting modulation down to zero and even invert it. In the end a bit of modulation sounds more natural than no mod. But I'm still wondering that there is apparently no "knob" in MuSampla for turning off following the key of note events.
If you are interested I will upload it as patch to KVR when finished. It's a fine bass with a growing slap sound in the very upper velocity range.
I also started using MuLab as DAW using VST and samples. But I see sometimes modeling an instrument is much more efficient and compact.
I think I tasted blood ...
But I fully agree to FLS that there is behaviour in modules that isn't explained (knobs, inputs, outputs) in the MuLab docs, which I guess would cost half a day to describe for an experienced MuLaborartist.
@Andreas: Thank you for your detailled approach. I will experiment with it. Learning by doing ...
BTW: How do you "display" the results of your "math with modulation"? Sometimes I would like to monitor a modulation signal.
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- KVRian
- 855 posts since 3 Mar, 2009
@Reincke: Same here. Something like the midi monitor for mod data (i don't mind slow update rate) could be very helpful. So far i listen, wonder, tweak and curse some more. But usually i get there.
And your approach wrt your initial question sounds very much like what i did.
And your approach wrt your initial question sounds very much like what i did.
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- KVRAF
- 13863 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
A modulation monitor indeed would be nice, it's on the wishlist. (hopefully included in MuLab 5 / MUX 2)
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 409 posts since 26 Jul, 2010 from Germany
Nope, everything was wrong! Have misinterpreted some strange effects of "modulation overflow". (Monitoring modulation would really helpReincke wrote:Well, I got a workaround!
) Now I'm rather back where I'm started. Have at least understand the difference between "MuSampla" and "sampler player". Everything I wrote before related to "sample player", not "MuSampla". (I was inside a polysynth.)
Now I'm trying MuSampla (outside of polysynth, of course). Normalizing the pitch is easy here (key splitter plus 11 note modifiers), but:
How can I trigger the MuSampla only in the upper velocity range from 100 to 127, playing the sample from volume 0 to 100 %?
From my (user's) point of view velocity is very similar to modulation, so it would be fine to have the same possibilities of controlling it (amplitude, offset, curve), but static, not in the meaning of ADSR.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 409 posts since 26 Jul, 2010 from Germany
Good news.mutools wrote:A modulation monitor indeed would be nice, it's on the wishlist. (hopefully included in MuLab 5 / MUX 2)