Kontakt Smart Snapshot problem
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- KVRist
- 32 posts since 25 Nov, 2009
I have a Kontakt5 16out setup on the first channel of my Receptor 2 and I can't figure out how to get the Smart Snapshot patches to NOT reload the whole Kontakt Multi. I have Alicia's Keys, Scarbee Rhodes and Vintage Organs as instruments in the Kontakt Multi and ALL I want to do is have different patch changes which mute each of the various 3 instruments. Can someone walk me thru how to set up a Smart Snapshot with Kontakt as my only source?? Seems like it should be easy. I've watched the youtube Smart Snapshot tutorial many times and it doesn't really help in my case. Thanks....
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- KVRist
- 103 posts since 10 Jan, 2007
Well, the idea of smart snapshots was to either use quick loading plugins that receive program changes or to use slow loading plugins and freeze them within the snapshot to avoid loading.
It seems according to your description that sending program changes to Kontakt to mute/unmute within Kontakt is not fast. This is probably due to the design of Kontakt (it doesn't detect similar programs and will always reload the samples fully). As alternative solution, you could make three instances of Kontakt on three channels and mute/unmute them. This will always be fast.
Fedde
It seems according to your description that sending program changes to Kontakt to mute/unmute within Kontakt is not fast. This is probably due to the design of Kontakt (it doesn't detect similar programs and will always reload the samples fully). As alternative solution, you could make three instances of Kontakt on three channels and mute/unmute them. This will always be fast.
Fedde
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 32 posts since 25 Nov, 2009
Thanks for your input Fedde! I used to do the multiple instances of Kontakt before I had my Receptor upgraded to SSD, and thought FOR SURE I could just use 1 instance of Kontakt and just mute or unmute.....or even switch midi channels on the various plugins inside Kontakt to achieve the same result. Actually, now that I think of it, I DID do the multiple Kontakt thing a few months ago with the same reloading hassle then Gary from Muse told me to just use one instance of Kontakt and do the Smart Snapshot thing and just switch the muting around. I'm bummed.......so much for live use.....unless i can get this figgered out. Thanks again..........RRfedde wrote:Well, the idea of smart snapshots was to either use quick loading plugins that receive program changes or to use slow loading plugins and freeze them within the snapshot to avoid loading.
It seems according to your description that sending program changes to Kontakt to mute/unmute within Kontakt is not fast. This is probably due to the design of Kontakt (it doesn't detect similar programs and will always reload the samples fully). As alternative solution, you could make three instances of Kontakt on three channels and mute/unmute them. This will always be fast.
Fedde
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 32 posts since 25 Nov, 2009
Another reason I don't wanna go the "Kontakt multiple instance" route is that I wanted to have a million variations effect-wise for my various instruments within Kontakt. 16 channels ain't even gonna begin to cut it.reinski wrote:Thanks for your input Fedde! I used to do the multiple instances of Kontakt before I had my Receptor upgraded to SSD, and thought FOR SURE I could just use 1 instance of Kontakt and just mute or unmute.....or even switch midi channels on the various plugins inside Kontakt to achieve the same result. Actually, now that I think of it, I DID do the multiple Kontakt thing a few months ago with the same reloading hassle then Gary from Muse told me to just use one instance of Kontakt and do the Smart Snapshot thing and just switch the muting around. I'm bummed.......so much for live use.....unless i can get this figgered out. Thanks again..........RRfedde wrote:Well, the idea of smart snapshots was to either use quick loading plugins that receive program changes or to use slow loading plugins and freeze them within the snapshot to avoid loading.
It seems according to your description that sending program changes to Kontakt to mute/unmute within Kontakt is not fast. This is probably due to the design of Kontakt (it doesn't detect similar programs and will always reload the samples fully). As alternative solution, you could make three instances of Kontakt on three channels and mute/unmute them. This will always be fast.
Fedde
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- KVRist
- 223 posts since 2 Dec, 2006 from Minnesota
While "a million variations" is a bit "optimistic" for any gear, there is a way to get additional mileage (effects wise) from a single instance of a Kontakt instrument (or any instrument). For example, I have a straight Scarbe Rhodes sound, an amped Rhodes, and a phased Rhodes on one Receptor channel (using two instances of VKF). I could also add one more effect and then have various combinations of any of the effects. I use the Vintage Keyboard effects instantiated in the effects slots of the channel and mute or unmute as desired. Each version is stored as a Receptor (snapshot) Multi patch. I know that this does not help if you wish to use the Kontakt effects, but I have found this very effective (no pun intended).
I'm working on a snapshot multi right now that I have instant access to an Ivory II German Grand, Alicia Keys, Scarbe Rhodes (straight/amped), Scarbe Rhodes (phaser), Scarbee Wurli (amped), Lounge Lizard Wurli (wah wah), Clavinet, VB3 Organ, Strings, Omnisphere (Moog lead), Omnisphere (string pad), and Omnisphere (polysynth), all very high quality sounds. I view Receptor as best at bringing a fairly limited number of high quality sounds to a live gig, rather than looking for it to do hundreds (thousands?) of sounds (like a romper might).
Of course everyone has different needs for the gig, I hope you can figure out a way to make Receptor work for you.
Tom
I'm working on a snapshot multi right now that I have instant access to an Ivory II German Grand, Alicia Keys, Scarbe Rhodes (straight/amped), Scarbe Rhodes (phaser), Scarbee Wurli (amped), Lounge Lizard Wurli (wah wah), Clavinet, VB3 Organ, Strings, Omnisphere (Moog lead), Omnisphere (string pad), and Omnisphere (polysynth), all very high quality sounds. I view Receptor as best at bringing a fairly limited number of high quality sounds to a live gig, rather than looking for it to do hundreds (thousands?) of sounds (like a romper might).
Of course everyone has different needs for the gig, I hope you can figure out a way to make Receptor work for you.
Tom
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 32 posts since 25 Nov, 2009
Thanks Tom. I appreciate your input. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my receptor.....I was just really hoping I would be able to replace the hardware stuff i travel with. But if it's the case where I'm not able to instantly access numerous variations of my plugins in Kontakt, I'll just have to keep the unit here at home for studio use.
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- KVRist
- 103 posts since 10 Jan, 2007
Tom: I use my Receptor also as a high quality sound source. Indeed the Receptor can be very good for piano, EP, clavi, organ and synth type of sounds. What do you use for strings? Do you use brass sounds?
Reinski: I would do a feature request for fast mute-change-only program changes in Kontakt (addressed to Native Instruments). Technically, I see no reason why this is not possible.
Fedde
Reinski: I would do a feature request for fast mute-change-only program changes in Kontakt (addressed to Native Instruments). Technically, I see no reason why this is not possible.
Fedde
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 32 posts since 25 Nov, 2009
Cool.....I'll give that a try. I must admit, I'm a little old-school when it comes to programming my Receptor and it's inherent learning curve (been programming synths since the late 70's).
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- KVRist
- 223 posts since 2 Dec, 2006 from Minnesota
fedde, I use an Omnisphere patch for a string/pad type sound (like what you might layer with piano). For a faster attack string sound, I have kind of a patch from Plug Sound (which I got when I upgraded to Receptor 2). It's not the greatest (similar to a decent rompler), but I don't do much of that kind of sound typically anyway. I have been using Roland hardware sounds for strings and brass as I only do one band (that's unfortunately working less and less) that requires those sounds - though I like to have them ready for those unexpected jobbing date calls.
Tom
Tom
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- KVRer
- 7 posts since 10 Oct, 2011
Hi reinski, let me see if I can help here.
I'm a little confused as to exactly what you want to achieve, but it seems to me you simply want to switch between various different instruments within one Kontakt instance - is this a correct assumption?
If so, there's no reason for you to use SMART Snapshots, just use standard Snapshots and have each of your patches routing through to a different MIDI channel within Kontakt. This way, nothing reloads, all you're doing is patching the MIDI through to a different patch within Kontakt.
For example, say you have Alicia's Keys as your first sound in Kontakt - that defaults to MIDI channel 1.
Say your second sound is Scarbee Rhodes - when you add that to the Kontakt multi it defaults to MIDI channel 2.
The third sound will default to MIDI channel 3, unless you change it.
From here, you can access the sounds (without additional loading times) by using the MIDI Filter on the MIX page. Save your patches with the different MIDI routing and that's all you need.
The only reason to use Smart Snapshots is if you have VST's running "patch-based" sounds, rather than sample-based sounds. Using the Unlock tool to create your Smart Snapshot opens the channel up and allows it to change patch with your individual patch changes. This used to only be available using normal MULTI's (not snapshots at all).
So in short, if you're using Kontakt or another sample-based VST you should use Snapshots. When you're using patch-based VST's (like Massive/Omnisphere) you should open those individual channels up to create Smart Snapshots.
Does this make sense?
Please let me know if I can explain this any better!
I'm a little confused as to exactly what you want to achieve, but it seems to me you simply want to switch between various different instruments within one Kontakt instance - is this a correct assumption?
If so, there's no reason for you to use SMART Snapshots, just use standard Snapshots and have each of your patches routing through to a different MIDI channel within Kontakt. This way, nothing reloads, all you're doing is patching the MIDI through to a different patch within Kontakt.
For example, say you have Alicia's Keys as your first sound in Kontakt - that defaults to MIDI channel 1.
Say your second sound is Scarbee Rhodes - when you add that to the Kontakt multi it defaults to MIDI channel 2.
The third sound will default to MIDI channel 3, unless you change it.
From here, you can access the sounds (without additional loading times) by using the MIDI Filter on the MIX page. Save your patches with the different MIDI routing and that's all you need.
The only reason to use Smart Snapshots is if you have VST's running "patch-based" sounds, rather than sample-based sounds. Using the Unlock tool to create your Smart Snapshot opens the channel up and allows it to change patch with your individual patch changes. This used to only be available using normal MULTI's (not snapshots at all).
So in short, if you're using Kontakt or another sample-based VST you should use Snapshots. When you're using patch-based VST's (like Massive/Omnisphere) you should open those individual channels up to create Smart Snapshots.
Does this make sense?
Please let me know if I can explain this any better!