ARC 2 Advanced Room Correction System is now available from IK Multimedia

[bluedad]

That dubstep guy has PERFECT timing.

Joined: 26 Jul 2012

How stupid are we supposed to be really?

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5009194

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/search.ph ... r=dubfonik

You know a simple Google search for that guy's name matches an Australian dubstep artist (just like his profile indicates) who's been on soundcloud etc for a good couple of years dont you?

which would match his ip rather well, seems it comes from iiNet in Melbourne, Australia

[Lenticular]

Then the regular upgrade price of $150.00 is way too much imo.
What new features warrant that steep amount for an upgrade fee?

-

Steep? To each his or her own as far as their ROI, if you get a lot out of ARC 2, these features should really be worth $150 for the upgrade:

- Update to improved Audyssey MultEQ® XT32 algo (very important and worth the price)
- Virtual emulations of environments/devices like certain monitors, car stereos, general stereos, etc
- 4x greater resolution (better low-end response was a FR)
- Improved sound in the mids/highs (another request)
- Customizable curves
- Fewer measurements
- Monitor control panel
- Better interface
- L/R combined correction

So it's improved, is it worth $150.00 more than the previous version?
What about auto bypass? I'd pay $5.00 more for that feature.

[AudioGuy720]

There's so much whining going on in this thread. A few things:

1. This is a major upgrade to software that you use on every mix/master. $99/$150 isn't too bad of a price.

2. No one is forcing anybody to upgrade.

3. $99 can be made easily in a 1 day recording session. Not making money recording/mixing/mastering music/audio? Not IK's problem. Get some more gigs, sell some more CDs/mp3s or up your rates. This software is a PROFESSIONAL TOOL!

4. Bypass during render does not work properly with a lot of DAWs. IK made the right choice to not have that as an option, IMHO. There's a lot of people complaining about software not working properly with that functionality. IK is saving themselves and their users that headache.

I bought ARC when it was $400 and don't regret it. It has saved me a lot of time over the years. It would be great if current ARC users could demo this product though.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

So it's improved, is it worth $150.00 more than the previous version?

Yes.

What about auto bypass? I'd pay $5.00 more for that feature.

If it gets implemented I wouldn't imagine you'd pay any extra for it. If you use Cubase or Nuendo you can already set it up this way, hope on over to Gearslutz for more info on that.

[schnapsglas]

Obvious thing to say, but ARC is non-refundable purchase right?
So many people are giving me different impressions of the system (well, probably the way it should be), I'm not sure if it will be worth it.

[Lenticular]

So it's improved, is it worth $150.00 more than the previous version?

Yes.

What about auto bypass? I'd pay $5.00 more for that feature.

If it gets implemented I wouldn't imagine you'd pay any extra for it. If you use Cubase or Nuendo you can already set it up this way, hope on over to Gearslutz for more info on that.

You say 'Yes', explain why in dollar comparisons between the two versions.

I would pay extra for a feature that's been requested over & over.
Obviously it can't be done. Putting ARC in your monitoring chain or doing workarounds is not what I call an answer. I'm glad I don't have to tun off all my plugins to bounce tracks.

I also see at the other bb's that none of you IK reps answered the question when it was asked if the requested bypass feature was included in this new version.

Ignoring questions asked by your customers doesn't show you in the greatest light, especially when you're promoting your products on those boards endlessly.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Thanks for pointing that out, feel free to provide a link and we'll get someone on it. We try to cover what we can and not ignore questions (and ignore baiting) but we're not always successful. Again, link please and we'll get it answered or point them to the right place to get the answer.

Putting it in the monitoring chain in Cubendo is not really considered a workaround to those who use it and they seem happy. I've made sure that the right people are aware that you and others are not happy there's a feature you've requested that isn't in this version.

Have a great day/night/both!

P.S. - I listed some of the features, I've stated it is worth more after doing so, I'm not ignoring you as you state we're doing elsewhere but sorry in this case I'm not going to give you a "dollar for dollar" comparison when I feel I've already answered your question. If you want more deep technical information you can always visit http://www.ikmultimedia.com/support or http://www.ikmultimedia.com/contact-us

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Obvious thing to say, but ARC is non-refundable purchase right?
So many people are giving me different impressions of the system (well, probably the way it should be), I'm not sure if it will be worth it.

This would follow the return policy of the vendor that sells it, including us and of course we'd prefer to make sure you are satisfied and if there was a return it would be due to a malfunction in hardware elements of the product. I'm not as versed in our returns, currently I don't have a direct line to someone online to get that info but if you'd PM your contact info I can get someone in touch.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

hey PETER(sorry), any new words concerning those new T racks processors, even just a hint towards Eq or dynamics or what, please, Im really getting excited actually because ive recently discovered a whole new Joy with the classic EQ all on its own and I think its going to become my favorite out of the lot, unless you have something better cooked up.

(sorry for sticking my nose in, im just buzzing about it)

Sorry I missed this one, I sure do hope you didn't think I was ignoring you... I will have to check, I know we've got a lot of things coming out and from what I understand if these aren't fully done and just waiting for post-development tasks, they're dang near it. I could be wrong so I'd like to verify. Hang tight, things change often when trying to release products in anything resembling a sane fashion but I'll do my best to get more info for you.

[Compyfox]

Let's get down to business, shall we?

hey brian, any new words concerning those new T racks processors, ...

Please no cross reference (even if Peter answered now) - this is a thread regarding ARC and not T-Racks 3. There seem to be new tools in the pipe (developed for months now), but this would drive this thread off topic - much like every other IKM thread on KVR.

This is a promotional price and these are typically not used in conjunction with JamPoints. However, I will relay the scenario presented for those that have JamPoints who question buying now when they could possibly buy later at a lower price with JamPoints. I won't get hopes up, but I will mention it.

I kind of don't understand why "promotional prices" should not work with customer discounts actually (incl. JamPoints). There is also the fact, that a lot of IKM's userbase already "have" 90-99% of the available tools - so the jampoints would be useless, and the revenue is definitely minimal for the users to actually "upgrade".

This is why the upgrade price is critisized as well.

I will go into the features below but this is a major release, far from a point release and the underlying technology as been improved. There are costs involved with this and we feel this is a fair price for upgrade. Long-time users have had use of the original version to help their mixes for a while too, with an upgrade path that costs a small amount for another good run at using the V2 release.

Granted, but then again...
Can IKM guarantee us users, that ARC will "not" be part of a sales deal (Winter, Spring, Summer) anytime soon? Or drop in price from one day to another?

The same debacle happened with Black/White. First it was said that there won't be any pricedrops (ever). There are also no upgrade prices still for full T-Racks Deluxe users. Then suddenly, you could either choose Black or White in one of the many sales recently.

On top of that, ARC1 dropped from 500bucks down to 299bucks (USD! excl VAT), including microphone. So the upgrade price, which is "half" the price of the boxed version including a microphone(!), for just a download is a bit steep. Even with that feature set. Either you sell the mic for next to nothing (which would imply that) and it's actually a cheap chinese build (Behringer design after all?), or the software is thus cheap compared to the microphone (don't think so if I look at Audyssey hardware prices).

Something doesn't add up here.

I don't have insight into these specific FRs. I've passed them along, but recently I've been working closely with the Support Manager since he has the data for FRs and issues which he reports on weekly. The list of FRs he mentions gets some very high-profile views and he can also discuss directly with product managers and developers.

I guess we can only hope with FR's.
But the "auto off while render" feature was most requestes since ARC 1.0.x actually. It's a bit over my head why it's not included in the new shiny version.

My personal favourite FR is still: Getting a hardware device to load the ARC presets on it to have it in "standalone" mode. Or running ARC as driver at least. Which would have made it independent of the host. But I can still dream.

While I understand wanting a demo, I hope it is understood that it would be a terrible idea to allow demoing with any mic we did not specifically test and rate for use with the product. We would be setting the product demo up for failure. However, I can ask about the potential for a demo version for those that actually have the original.

I did not mention any random mic actually.

The Behringer ECM 8000 is an affordable measurement microphone (omnidirectional, condensers, small membrane) and I've read tons of reviews, where that mic just does the trick. Then there is the Superlux ECM999, the Peavy PVR2, the t.bone MM-1 - all measurement microphones and they are all priced around 50bucks each, with similar features. The AKG C414 is known (to me at least) as the most flat (frequency response) large condenser microphone with onmidirectional mode - so in theory it can be used as well.

This all opens doors for testing and potential interested customers. If you look at it, and it was mentioned by someone else already, you still need a preamp regardless which colors the sound in worse cases.

Then again, if you bring the argument "chances are we will see hacks of ARC2" - then I can agree why you said that. But then again, this doesn't scare off the crack-"community" and it will happen eventually as long as you don't go back to Syncrosoft/iLok2/USB key (Plugin Alliance/Waves).

Which would be another plus point for the "professional usage" as well.
Just my 2c on this.

And if AT3 is any indication, ARC2 will be $99 to new users at some point, with no discount for upgraders.

Sure, you can use the original ARC for a couple of years until that point anyway.

I sure hope that won't be the case. It pissed me off big time back in the day to see a tool that once cost 500bucks to drop about 200quid - because it's "that old", and ARC2 wasn't even on front doors.

Sure I got my use out of it, but I can at least say from my perspective that I also tried to improve it. Now I'm getting stabbed in the back with the upgrade prices and lack of certain features.

Might not be full-price cool, but they can choose to wait the couple of years or so like AT3 at $99.

Again, my concern is the sales and the rewards those people get who spend the regular price compared to those who jump on it at a massive discount. In short: none.

Granted: early adopter - but then again, all bells and whistles with issues while installing or using. I remember that I had to redo my measurements after IKM implemented the "lowbass enhancement" feature in ARC1 for example. Or stability issues until the update with the implementation of T-Racks (which is still nonsense IMO, but that is my personal opinion).

1. This is a major upgrade to software that you use on every mix/master. $99/$150 isn't too bad of a price.

This depends on the point of view. As I wrote earlier, you don't get a microphone with it, and no physical medium - just a download and serial. And it's good that the old mics seem to be supported, but what if that changes with a dot update?

2. No one is forcing anybody to upgrade.

Agreed - but then again, this can count to everything.

3. $99 can be made easily in a 1 day recording session. Not making money recording/mixing/mastering music/audio? Not IK's problem. Get some more gigs, sell some more CDs/mp3s or up your rates. This software is a PROFESSIONAL TOOL!

While I agree on the "professional tool", it is aimed (according to advertisements) to the small guy from out back as well. And this small guy can just be a mere consumer. If he doesn't have the funds, he can't go for it (which is in theory his problem). Also with the pro-sumers - they don't get 100bucks a recording session to adjust the purchase. The market shifted, and they are way more freelancers around than just a couple of years ago. Especially in certain capitols.

I understand your point, but you also have to weight in the rate of price compared to features and bundled content.

4. Bypass during render does not work properly with a lot of DAWs. IK made the right choice to not have that as an option, IMHO. There's a lot of people complaining about software not working properly with that functionality. IK is saving themselves and their users that headache.

It can work with the big players however. And especially the small developers confirmed that this is possible. Example is SKnote with the "render vs realtime usage" setting in their most recent tools. Or Slate Digital, which offer a similar technique with VTM and VCC. Aparently, that is working with most hosts - because I didn't read any issues with these tools.

I bought ARC when it was $400 and don't regret it. It has saved me a lot of time over the years. It would be great if current ARC users could demo this product though.

Same here with being an early adopter. This is why I answer this detailed in terms of why I think the price is a tad (with emphasis on a tad) steep.



I think I wrote enough.
I guess we will have to wait and see what's happening in the end. Apparently, the IKM representatives try to get things sorted, so a big thanks to them. It's only the company itself that needs to "listen".

[AudioGuy720]

I bought ARC when it was $400 and don't regret it. It has saved me a lot of time over the years. It would be great if current ARC users could demo this product though.

Same here with being an early adopter. This is why I answer this detailed in terms of why I think the price is a tad (with emphasis on a tad) steep.



I think I wrote enough.
I guess we will have to wait and see what's happening in the end. Apparently, the IKM representatives try to get things sorted, so a big thanks to them. It's only the company itself that needs to "listen".

I get where you're coming from and agree. It does suck paying full price for something that has bugs then you wait and wait and the new guys jump on a deal. This happened with Slate Digital's VCC last year or the year before when they ironed out the bugs and then Cyber Monday came and people were able to get it for half off. It made so many people angry that they gave out vouchers.

But THEN when Slate released VTM they gave vouchers to anybody who bought any other Slate product. Which IMHO was BS. The original intent of giving out the voucher was because people had to put up with glitchy software for a year or two. Which is why I am going to wait for a deal...I can hold off for four months LOL!

From a marketing standpoint, deals make sense. But it sucks if you paid full price for something and miss out. This happened a few years back with a certain video game. It was released in early November and then Black Friday came and it was 50% off...Let's just say I've learned my lesson over the years and if don't absolutely NEED a plugin but like it I will wait until the end of November for the crazy sales.

Back to ARC2. It looks like this uses the Audyssey XT32 engine which is supposed to really help with smaller mixing rooms. According to IK's website, anyway. That was one of my problems with ARC in that I would intentionally turn my subwoofer volume DOWN when running the reference tests. Because ARC would detect a 20dB (or was it 12dB?) peak and suck the bass out of the woofer if I didn't. I wonder if this would fix that problem?

I'm not saying there isn't a 20 dB peak in that bass range but without it I can't hear the bass at all. Which defeats the purpose of my expensive subwoofer, LOL!

[Compyfox]

I get where you're coming from and agree. It does suck paying full price for something that has bugs then you wait and wait and the new guys jump on a deal. This happened with Slate Digital's VCC last year or the year before when they ironed out the bugs and then Cyber Monday came and people were able to get it for half off. It made so many people angry that they gave out vouchers.

Yes, this is a prime example. Even though I didn't have that many issues with VCC in the first place (only with the VU). (this is a bit OT however)

From a marketing standpoint, deals make sense. But it sucks if you paid full price for something and miss out. This happened a few years back with a certain video game. It was released in early November and then Black Friday came and it was 50% off...Let's just say I've learned my lesson over the years and if don't absolutely NEED a plugin but like it I will wait until the end of November for the crazy sales.

This is still happening. A certain videogame I can recall is Modern Warfare 3. Sure was no fun how the price dropped within weeks (again, OT).

Still, it can't be happening that we have to either jump on the 99USD (excl. VAT!) deal now, or the 149USD (excl. VAT) upgrade at a later state. And then around holiday season (Autumn and Winter), we get sales of studio bundles INCLUDING ARC at a steal. Or "stupid deals of the day" over at AudioMIDI and how they all are called. Street prices at online stores (even for upgrades) not included.

This will certainly tick off early adopters - and there is no excuse with saying "but you could use it sooner than everyone else". Yeah, but we were also doing mass-testing for the late adopters to iron out every single bug.

Steinberg Cubase and Nuendo comparision anyone?

Back to ARC2. It looks like this uses the Audyssey XT32 engine which is supposed to really help with smaller mixing rooms. According to IK's website, anyway. That was one of my problems with ARC in that I would intentionally turn my subwoofer volume DOWN when running the reference tests. Because ARC would detect a 20dB (or was it 12dB?) peak and suck the bass out of the woofer if I didn't. I wonder if this would fix that problem?

Could be, since the XT32 engine is made to offer a better resolution overall.

Though I do have the impression from your post, that you setup your subwoofer a tad wrong in the first place. Did you actually measure it in compared to your speakers? Or is the placement non-ideal?

(example: speakers, individually 83dB SPL c-weighted, so subwoofer with LP at 150Hz should be at least 10dB to 15dB lower, meaning 73dB to 68dB SPL c-weighted - at least to my knowledge - please read up on calibrating, just to be sure)

[BERFAB]

If you use Cubase or Nuendo you can already set it up this way, hope on over to Gearslutz for more info on that.

I've hopped, but can't find it. Could you please provide a link?

Or, failing that, could you please detail how Cubase/Nuendo users can configure this so I don't keep accidentally rendering tracks with ARC?

Thanks
-B

[twisted-space]

You must be a registered user of ARC System version 1 in order to purchase this Upgrade

NOTE: JamPoints are not accepted for the purchase of this item

P*ssed off about this as well.

Think I'll stick with V1 for now, there will no doubt be a sale at some point.

[emasters]

Hi Peter - product question (after purchasing the upgrade): ARC v2 stand-alone and VST/AU work fine. However, T-RackS v3 still invokes ARC v1. Is there a planned update of T-RackS to have it integrate with ARC v2 versus ARC v1? Thx.