KVR Audio

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:29 pm

reaper has no notation

asnor · Post by **asnor** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:48 pm

Every once in a while someone will point out something cool about newer Sonar versions and I'll go dl the demo and give it a spin; however, the x1 gui has always been a show stopper for me. I like the idea of it, but something about it just rubs me wrong. I feel an anxiety attack coming on just thinking about it.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:52 pm

sagetone · Post by **sagetone** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:58 pm

hibidy wrote:reaper has no notation

After I posted earlier, I looked back at the Reaper features - hadn't been to the site is quite some time - and noticed no XML export. Not a huge deal, but definitely a plus for Sonar.

cubic13 · Post by **cubic13** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:19 am

Sorry to add a negative view about Sonar in general. I bought it, txo years ago, fed up with Cubase windows and presets management. Tried patiently to get the grip on it during several weeks (with the 'Come on, it should be doable, just keep on searching' kind of thinking). At a point, I gave up : too much hassle.

I didn't even bother to install it on my present system, bought few months after. And I skipped X1, seeing all the issues that were coming with it and no major enhancements, feature wise. But, as X2 is on the radar, my interest is rising again (just a little). So, are there true improvements and fixes about :

- the audio engine ?
- The routing (being able, at least, to route a VSTi output to an audio track input) ?
- the 'Fit to time/improvisation' features which were a nightmare to use, compared to Cubase musical/linear timebase switch ?
- the MIDI external instruments integration ?
- the ability to transform and/or filter any incoming MIDI message as Cubase Input Transformer ?
- the score implememntation (which is a joke, compared to Cubase one) ?
- the audio editing (Audiosnap, well...) ?

If only Steiny could fix once for all the windows management mess and the clunky presets one, with the VST 2.x compatibility broken, I wouldn't even question myself...

Now, about X2, we'll see but, as the OP stated, it 'looks good' ; I'm afraid that it will be only essentially that...

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:02 pm

I'm not really hopeful that the score issue will be solved though in X2.

BTW @cubic...no need to worry about the issues you presented...it was a good overview.

cubic13 · Post by **cubic13** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:47 pm

trimph1 wrote:I'm not really hopeful that the score issue will be solved though in X2.

BTW @cubic...no need to worry about the issues you presented...it was a good overview.

Thanks, but purchasing Sonar 8.5 was my own mistake. Before doing so, I installed its demo and focused too much about the problems I had (and still have) with Cubase. When I saw that all my plug-ins were recognized and usable, that the windows were easily manageable (without clumsy workarounds such as Cubase workspaces) and that the full VST 2.x compatibility was kept, I decided too quickly to buy it ; I was so fed up with the issues I had with Cubase windows, Mediabay stuff and the broken VST 2.x compatibility that I said to myself 'Go for it !', thinking that I would find sooner or later how to do the same things in Sonar that I was doing in Cubase.

Now I am left with an unused licence of Sonar 8.5 and again, it's my own mistake. I understand that Sonar can fit the needs of a lot of users. Sadly, not mine, but I try to keep an open mind : I would truly like to see any improvements in Sonar about the features I stated above. Let's see what future brings.

To sum it up, a typical 'Grass isn't always greener...' case.

jens · Post by **jens** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:46 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:The plugin? Echomania by Interruptor.

Synth

Edit

.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:50 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote: This company doesn't seem to know how to develop its own product because, aside from totally reskining the GUI (but not actually re-developing contents- the track view, notation view, piano roll or event list views- apparently), it's always some third party addon they're showing off in new versions and a couple "should've been there already" features (like VST integration, again, back during version 7, & more recently, plugin swapping, that they sold as a freakin paid-for addon).

I have no problems with the track view (actually, it's better than other well established DAW's, like Logic, for example), but I'm with you in what concernas piano roll and, SPECIALLY, event list and notation view. These two windows need a complete reworking. They could take a good lesson from Cubase in these two areas.

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:37 pm

I'd like to be able to just click to add edit nodes, but no, that would be too easy

Oh, and last night, I had a buss set up with various string sections routed to it. I routed the buss output to another buss for reverb. But the strings buss had no send pot to control the reverb amount. Sure, there might be a work-around, but why doesn't it just work the way the other channels work?

And why won't midi learn just work with 3rd-party effects vsts?

Don't even get me started on ACT. Just don't.

Apple guys like to say "it just works" and "it's that simple." I want to slap them. With SONAR, "it's complicated" or "it just doesn't work."

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:18 pm

satYatunes · Post by **satYatunes** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:36 pm

This weekend, it crashed 2 times when I tried to drag and drop a plugin. 3rd time a nice message popped up - "you have added two many instances of xyz plugin. because of the RAM limitation your host may crash. Please use 64bit to use more RAM". Not exactly those wording but same meaning. I couldn't stop laughing and it reminded me of this thread. Now tell me which DAW warns you in advance that it is going to crash

. It's not a bug, it's a feature

Anyway, after bouncing a few tracks, it sailed smoothly.

It's my primary DAW atm and working well so far. I now know a few situation where it's going to crash so I take precautions. Usually it hangs when I try to export the final mix to wav with 24bit/96KHz setting. Not all the time though, at times it renders smoothly. So, in a nutshell, it's kinda unreliable but that can be said for any DAW imo. Ctrl + S is your best friend while working in Sonar X1.

Track bouncing is still the best in Sonar. Just one click switch, that's all.

I also, like the webinars that they do from time to time. It's little boring (I never watched it in one go) but they do share nice tips and tricks.

ACT, I have not used it much but going to set it up this week.

Most of the features in X2 seems like improvements so I really hope they don't charge too much for the upgrade.

satYatunes · Post by **satYatunes** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:49 pm

Gonga wrote: Oh, and last night, I had a buss set up with various string sections routed to it. I routed the buss output to another buss for reverb. But the strings buss had no send pot to control the reverb amount. Sure, there might be a work-around, but why doesn't it just work the way the other channels work?

Are you talking about sends from one bus to another? I have attached a screen shot.

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:41 pm

Oh...my bad...

I had set the output to the other bus but not set up the send correctly.

Never mix after midnight

Thanks for that by the way, I really needed to make that work!

OK, that one I'll give to the Cake People.

KevWestBeats · Post by **KevWestBeats** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:32 pm

cubic13 wrote:Sorry to add a negative view about Sonar in general. I bought it, txo years ago, fed up with Cubase windows and presets management. Tried patiently to get the grip on it during several weeks (with the 'Come on, it should be doable, just keep on searching' kind of thinking). At a point, I gave up : too much hassle.

I didn't even bother to install it on my present system, bought few months after. And I skipped X1, seeing all the issues that were coming with it and no major enhancements, feature wise. But, as X2 is on the radar, my interest is rising again (just a little). So, are there true improvements and fixes about :

- the audio engine ?
- The routing (being able, at least, to route a VSTi output to an audio track input) ?
- the 'Fit to time/improvisation' features which were a nightmare to use, compared to Cubase musical/linear timebase switch ?
- the MIDI external instruments integration ?
- the ability to transform and/or filter any incoming MIDI message as Cubase Input Transformer ?
- the score implememntation (which is a joke, compared to Cubase one) ?
- the audio editing (Audiosnap, well...) ?

If only Steiny could fix once for all the windows management mess and the clunky presets one, with the VST 2.x compatibility broken, I wouldn't even question myself... Now, about X2, we'll see but, as the OP stated, it 'looks good' ; I'm afraid that it will be only essentially that...

I went from Sonar 4 to 7 back to 4 to X1. The audio engine is still bad not as bad as it was in 7 but not perfect either. A lot more stable though. You have been able to route audio outputs from vsti to audio inputs on audio tracks. I was doing that with Sonar in 2005. External instruments can be used as well. They call them instrument definitions and it works really well as long as you only use presets. Once you start straying away from presets you may see some problems. audio snap has been there and the audio editing is what it is for me at least. I think that is one of the best things about Sonar.

SONAR X2 first look