Rumoured Zebra 3 Improvements?

[hollo]

Zebra3 might integrate modal synthesis.

I'm not familiar with modal synthesis. Anyone have a youtube vid or article I can read?

Thanks for this Hakey!

I will be happy to see our MODAL MODULe in Z3!

(- and the wav outline to MSEG!)

Cheers:

[rockin1]

Zebra3 might integrate modal synthesis.

I'm not familiar with modal synthesis. Anyone have a youtube vid or article I can read?

I wasn't familiar with this one. It looks like it has many similarities with Sculpture although it also looks much more general. Does anyone know if Sculpture uses modal synthesis behind the scenes with specific partial distributions used to model the various resonators, etc?

In any case, it would be extremely cool to be able to do this kind of stuff in Z3. I hope we would have a the partial readout in Z3 as well as it looks like that is very useful in understanding what is going on with a sound...

[Urs]

I think Sculpture uses delay-based Physical Modeling, much like Zebra's Comb filters, with a set of well thought out excitation units.

Modal synthesis uses an array of damped sine generators (think almost self-oscillating resonant bandpass filters).

It's a fundamentally different approach.

My take on it less specific as Prisms. Prism has a high-level approach to it that generates a lot of variation with a few knobs. I'm merely into the idea of merging the existing EQ and Resonator idea into a flexible modal resonator unit. Like our take on Physical Modeling, I'd leave the excitation to other units (oscillators, noise generators, comb filters).

We'll see... as for name dropping: We'll use zero delay feedback resonators

[hakey]

I'm merely into the idea of merging the existing EQ and Resonator idea into a flexible modal resonator unit.

Sounds good.

Voice grid module or global?

[Urs]

I'm merely into the idea of merging the existing EQ and Resonator idea into a flexible modal resonator unit.

Sounds good.

Voice grid module or global?

Both. Modal synthesis needs keyfollow. Formants don't. Maybe 2 voiced, 2 global.

I'm mostly thinking about merging modules. Less types in favour of more flexible ones, but then more of each.

Still kind of uncertain if also an "inverse sister" could be done that, instead of filtering, analyses. And then controls the bands of it's modal sibling. Think vocoder. Not sure. Haven't done that ever, might be either nonsense or overkill.

OTOH Clemens wrote a 1000 stage phaser that runs just fine, using fabled zero delay feedback filters (but renders audio beyond recognition). Who knows...

[hakey]

Very interesting!

What does a 1000 stage phaser do/soundlike?

[hakey]

One trick I'd love to see borrowed from Prism for modal synthesis is the harmonic bending parameters (the Ratios section of the Modal bank).

Useful for all sorts of bells, gongs and generally clangorous, metallic and dissonant timbres.

And perhaps an Osc FX based upon the same?

[Fritze]

We'll see... as for name dropping: We'll use zero delay feedback resonators

This!

[bmrzycki]

We'll see... as for name dropping: We'll use zero delay feedback resonators

This!

I'm waiting for zero-delay feedback evaluation -- I want Zebra to tell me right away when a sound I make is starting to suck.

[Urs]

One trick I'd love to see borrowed from Prism for modal synthesis is the harmonic bending parameters (the Ratios section of the Modal bank).

Useful for all sorts of bells, gongs and generally clangorous, metallic and dissonant timbres.

And perhaps an Osc FX based upon the same?

Well, Oscillators can only do harmonic timbres. OscFX generally mangle wavetables in shape or spectrum.

I'm not sure if I want to go as far as Prism for effects on groups of harmonics. The idea I have is rather simple and I'm concerned that spending too much time on modal synthesis is rather counterproductive. The idea is to allow for "a lot of bands" in the EQ module. Any high-level functions that reorganize EQ bands are a bit over the top IMHO, apart from overall tuning and depth maybe.

Cheers,

Urs

[hakey]

Well, Oscillators can only do harmonic timbres. OscFX generally mangle wavetables in shape or spectrum.

No other way that we can get harmonic bending in Zebra?

Imo, it's a useful tool to have.

[hakey]

I'm not sure if I want to go as far as Prism for effects on groups of harmonics.

In Prism harmonic bending isn't applied to groups of harmonics - all of the harmonics are 'bent'.

I think Harmor and possibly Razor do the same.

[EvilDragon]

Yeah, Razor does the same.

[hakey]

I'm not sure if I want to go as far as Prism for effects on groups of harmonics.

At the risk of labouring the point - are you perhaps confusing Prism's A:B Shift/Bal parameters (right of centre in the Modal Bank), which split the harmonics into two groups for comb type effects, with the Ratios parameters (far left of the Modal Bank), which alter/bend the frequency relationships of *all* of the harmonics (but don't split or group them)?

[Arrested Developer]

No other way that we can get harmonic bending in Zebra?

Basically, the effect of a frequency shifter results in harmonic bending (iirc).
I think, a frequency shifting module inside of Z3 would be awesome!

(the interesting part would be the way you adjust ratios; would love to see
such a unit, which allows it to adjust the shifting according to intervalls between harmonics.
But maybe this is too complicated...