Reason Rack extension

[IncarnateX]

...), well I guess there's a limit to how much you can actually sell with clever marketing before people will start to yawn.

There always will be. Marketing bullshit is what it is. If anyone takes it seriously, he has not grasped what it is about. God knows how many products, including VSTis, that continually are termed "revolutionary" or similar out there?

[Flandersh]

"If the mixer looks like a big powerful pro mixer, that's because it is! Modeled after the SSL 9000k" My interpretation is that the SSL is not a part of the mixer section, but that the mixer is modelling the SSL 9000k in full.

Source: http://www.propellerheads.se/products/r ... icle=mixer

Right below your quote they write

the mixer in Reason has become so popular that pro mix engineers have made it their weapon of choice to tap into the clarity, punch, and analog characteristics provided by the modeled EQ or compressors on every channel... and that's not to mention the master bus compressor.

Here they refer to both the modeled EQs and compressors on every channel. And they refer to the masterbus as well, which they describe in the next paragraphs, so how did you reach your conclusion?

And where iare the lies, which @SellYourSoul claims, in these informations? Don' t get it

I reached my conclusion based on the fact that the word "Modeled" only could point to either "If the mixer looks like a big powerful pro mixer, that's because it is!" or "the mixer in Reason". This has to do with the grammatical system I've learned.

[IncarnateX]

I reached my conclusion based on the fact that the word "Modeled" only could point to either "If the mixer looks like a big powerful pro mixer, that's because it is!" or "the mixer in Reason". This has to do with the grammatical system I've learned.

As I have shown you, they refer to the mixer as a whole. Here is the full text:

Walk into any recording studio and the large format mixer is the creative centerpiece of the production environment. Reason 6 is no different. A musical tool in itself, the mixer is where you bring all the elements of your production together and shape them for your final release.

If the mixer looks like a big powerful pro mixer, that's because it is! Modeled after the SSL 9000k, one of the most legendary analog studio consoles in modern music history, Reason's mixer doesn't just balance your levels... it shapes your sound. In fact, the mixer in Reason has become so popular that pro mix engineers have made it their weapon of choice to tap into the clarity, punch, and analog characteristics provided by the modeled EQ or compressors on every channel... and that's not to mention the master bus compressor.

The Master Bus Compressor
Maybe you've previously heard us get excited about our "master bus compressor" ...or maybe your friends won't stop talking about "the master bus compressor" in Reason and you're starting to wonder: what exactly are we talking about? It looks small and unassuming but the master bus compressor is your mix's "secret sauce"The SSL* master bus compressor has long been famous for its ability to glue mixes together and give all your tracks a sense of cohesion. It's not about brick wall mastering. It's about a style of warm compression that you've been hearing on mixes for the past 30 years.By applying this analog magic to your full master mix bus, your drums will gain punch, your bass more warmth, and your sound more intangible sparkle. Sounds too good to be true but hearing is believing.And while we'd love to take credit for this powerful little monster, we can't. What we can proudly say instead is that we recreated the sound of this bus compressor to exacting standards. Honestly, it sounds gorgeous.

You see, when they refer top the mixer "sound" they refer to the eqs and compressors and not the mixer apart from those elements. They especially emphasize the effect of the bus compressor as the "secret sauce" and not the mixer in itself. Nowhere do they claim that it is a 100% precise modeling of the hardware unit. If anyone believes this, it is due to reading something into the text that is not there and or too little knowledge about the general limitations of software emulations, which will not sound 100% correct in any case. What the "punch" and "sparkle" concern, well these are just marketing buzz-words and shouldn't be taken seriously. It is an advertisement, for God's sake, not a scientific publication.

[Flandersh]

I'll have to chime in here once again...

I've been a Reason user since version 1.0. My overall impression of other Reason users I've come across during the years is that they - just like myself - are primarily using Reason for creative sound design purposes in the context of electronic music making. I've actually seen very few Reason users over the years who're using the software for recording guitars and doing more traditional DAW work. But that's me.

Anyway, the way I see it, Reason's status as a cool piece of software began to fade away when PH decided to flirt with traditional recording customers, i.e. when they decided to wash off the badge that suggested Reason was mainly for electronic music geeks. Today PH seems to develop Reason into the direction of an "all batteries included" DAW. And, judging by the level of music production skills PH seems to assume for their customers in their marketing, the next generation of Reason users seem to be a pretty lame, ignorant and lazy one.

If we're taking into account the huge competition in the DAW world and the hint that PH isn't exactly known for fast development cycles, I hope PH still has some secret innovation resources left in the company. If the future of Reason will just be about a bunch of Swedish hipster guys sitting in a flashy office in Stockholm, discussing what features from other DAWs they'll copy-paste and modify so that it's "done right" (as we saw in the marketing of Record: "recording done right", and as we saw with Rack Extensions: essentially VSTs done right...), well I guess there's a limit to how much you can actually sell with clever marketing before people will start to yawn.

I agree. As a Reason user since 2.0 I met mostly friendly users in the community until Reason started it change from virtual studio to DAW.

In the old days it was quite intelligent discussions on the Reason forums; discussions which was inspiring. Nowadays I have to read on KVR, gearslutz, presonus or AES to get the same intelligent discussions. This may certainly be, as you point out, because of the new userbase a DAW version of Reason would approach. But this place Reason in a lesser professional views than the old Reason was. When I started with Reason it was seen as a professional tool which the movie and game industry used, and famous artists; a real competitor to the big DAWs for the electronic musician. Nowadays it seems, based on some of their marketing movies, to be a competitor to Magix Music Maker.

Propellerheads should have made a pro version of Reason; a version which was not installed as an all-inclusive package, but where the user could choose what to be installed, and a producer version as an all-inclusive DAW. This way they could maintained both the old user base which liked Reason as a virtual studio rack, and the users who like Reason as a DAW.

[Flandersh]

You see, when they refer top the mixer "sound" they refer to the eqs and compressors and not the mixer apart from those elements. They especially emphasize the effect of the bus compressor as the "secret sauce" and not the mixer in itself. Nowhere do they claim that it is a 100% precise modeling of the hardware unit. If anyone believes this, it is due to reading something into the text that is not there and or too little knowledge about the general limitations of software emulations, which will not sound 100% correct in any case. What the "punch" and "sparkle" concern, well these are just marketing buzz-words and shouldn't be taken seriously. It is an advertisement, for God's sake, not a scientific publication.

I don't see that, I see it as the mixer; included its elements, is modeled on the SSL9000k. That's how I read it. I have never read anything about 100% precise, I've only read 'Modeled'. In short word has I treated it as a console emu with EQs, Comps and bus comps, when they; according to you, has meant that I should threat it as EQ emu's, Comp emu's and bus comp emu (and why didn't they then make these as separate devices, why bother with making a GUI of their new mixer like the SSL 9000k?). I have treated it as a console emu in the same way as I treat Harrison mixbus as a console emu, and console libraries to Nebula as console emu's.

[IncarnateX]

I don't see that, I see it as the mixer; included its elements, is modeled on the SSL9000k. That's how I read it. I have never read anything about 100% precise, I've only read 'Modeled'. In short word has I treated it as a console emu with EQs, Comps and bus comps, when they; according to you, has meant that I should threat it as EQ emu's, Comp emu's and bus comp emu (and why didn't they then make these as separate devices, why bother with making a GUI of their new mixer like the SSL 9000k?). I have treated it as a console emu in the same way as I treat Harrison mixbus as a console emu, and console libraries to Nebula as console emu's.

I am not sure what your post was about then and what you say it is I say. You answered a reply I made to @SellYourSoul and he claimed that PH were referring to the mixer's sound apart form the bus compressor. Clearly they are speaking about the SSL mixer bus as part of the mixer here as far as it's sound concerns, so that is out of the question now.

He also said that PH have lied about that Reason's mixer sounds the same as the SSL 9000k, which they have not. They just say it is "modeled after it", which is a rather vague term. It could mean anything from modelling the look and basic routings of it to actual circuit modeling.

If your post not was meant to suggest any of this, then I have no objections nor comments for that matter.

Cheers

[angelremington]

It can't be competitor to Magix music maker, Magix MM costs $89 (or $149 for the premium one), Reason costs $459
Reason is not exactly cheap these days... I mean I paid almost that much when I bought Reason 5 and Record 1.5 (duo) @ the time, but that's all I knew @ the time, as I already done few tutorials with reason etc, if I was looking @ it now, no way I'd pay that much and then spend more on RE, So far every other software I bought over the past few weeks costed me less than reason(S1V2 pro, reaper, even Cubase 6.5, etc)
And I can use any VST I like, the beauty is all the synths i bought Nexus 2, Sylenth, Massive, Absynth etc, even my hardware synths integrated,I can use in any software and if I decide to sell or swap them I can.
These synths are awesome and I don't see them being made into RE any time soon or ever, now that i've tried them and slowly started using them... I can't imagine going back to being without them, but I still find Reason the easiest to compose in, do all the sequencing, etc I just won't be buying any RE any time soon, but then again who knows things may change, who knows what Reason 7 will bring or RE V 2.0 or the props may even change their policy and attitude with the RE.
It is kind of funny for me personally, when i learned a bit about making music and I bought Reason, I spent all my time and money buying all the refills, rex loops, books, tutorials and anything to do with Reason, and after the RE came out I haven't spent one cent on it but spent so much on plugin synths... LOL

Chill out guys... lets see if we make better music now - those of us that got new shiny RE's and those of us like me that switched to VST's @ the end of the day that is all about, make music have fun.... although arguing in the forums is fun too - sometimes

[Flandersh]

I don't see that, I see it as the mixer; included its elements, is modeled on the SSL9000k. That's how I read it. I have never read anything about 100% precise, I've only read 'Modeled'. In short word has I treated it as a console emu with EQs, Comps and bus comps, when they; according to you, has meant that I should threat it as EQ emu's, Comp emu's and bus comp emu (and why didn't they then make these as separate devices, why bother with making a GUI of their new mixer like the SSL 9000k?). I have treated it as a console emu in the same way as I treat Harrison mixbus as a console emu, and console libraries to Nebula as console emu's.

I am not sure what your post was about then and what you say it is I say. You answered a reply I made to @SellYourSoul and he claimed that PH were referring to the mixer's sound apart form the bus compressor. Clearly they are speaking about the SSL mixer bus as part of the mixer here as far as it's sound concerns, so that is out of the question now.

He also said that PH have lied about that Reason's mixer sounds the same as the SSL 9000k, which they have not. They just say it is "modeled after it", which is a rather vague term. It could mean anything from modelling the look and basic routings of it to actual circuit modeling.

If your post not was meant to suggest any of this, then I have no objections nor comments for that matter.

Cheers

In saying that I treated it as a console emu with processors I understand it such that the console emu with the processors deactivated also may have an emulated sound. It is this understanding @SellYourSoul may have pointed to. This understanding is an important one too, since the sound of the signal chain in a console has as much to say as compressors and EQs for the overall sound of the mix. In the release of Record they also talked about the mixer's sound without pointing to the processors specifically: "Record's software mixer's sound is faithfully modeled after the legendary british mixing console." So I take it as the mixers sound both with and without processors activated.

Source: http://www.propellerheads.se/products/r ... what-is-it

[Flandersh]

It can't be competitor to Magix music maker, Magix MM costs $89 (or $149 for the premium one), Reason costs $459

I didn't mean in term of price, but in turn of functions. Had Reason been as it is today 9 years ago I haven't bought it.

[eXode]

The mixer in Reason is transparent. In other words, if you have disabled dynamics, filters and eq section the actual mix does not color the sound. It's been tested several time on the PUF (comparisons of audio processed trough just mixer or direct out with mixer "bypassed"). Can we put the mixer discussion to rest now?

[kmonkey]

The mixer in Reason is transparent. In other words, if you have disabled dynamics, filters and eq section the actual mix does not color the sound. It's been tested several time on the PUF (comparisons of audio processed trough just mixer or direct out with mixer "bypassed"). Can we put the mixer discussion to rest now?

At this point of time any KVRian thinking that Reason mixer (when tested properly) have some sound degradation or is producing different sound when compared to other audio solutions (Cubase, FL Studio etc..) simply by processing sound in it - is a complete moron!

It has been tested to death and back to life.

I can only agree with you (and that is coming from someone not using Reason) this should be rest for doomsday..

[Flandersh]

The mixer in Reason is transparent. In other words, if you have disabled dynamics, filters and eq section the actual mix does not color the sound. It's been tested several time on the PUF (comparisons of audio processed trough just mixer or direct out with mixer "bypassed"). Can we put the mixer discussion to rest now?

I have seen that, but when I back in time bought Record I read Propellerheads statement as the mixer signal chain also was emulated, and this I think was at stack in this discussion. So in short word, the discussion was rather about marketing language than actually fact

[IncarnateX]

So in short word, the discussion was rather about marketing language than actually fact

The discussion was actually about whether Reason users "lie about Reason to defend it" as claimed by @SellYourBrain, among other things that PH (are they "Reason users" BTW???) should have claimed that the mixer has a sound in itself at their homepage. Should be clear by now that the only thing to do with such claims is to stuff them where the sun don't shine.

We can return to topic now, if there ever where any.


Cheers

[decalogue]

One thing is for certain though. Whatever new feature PH will implement in Reason... it will be that feature DONE RIGHT.

[Flandersh]

So in short word, the discussion was rather about marketing language than actually fact

The discussion was actually about whether Reason users "lie about Reason to defend it" as claimed by @SellYourBrain, among other things that PH (are they "Reason users" BTW???) should have claimed that the mixer has a sound in itself at their homepage. Should be clear by now that the only thing to do with such claims is to stuff them where the sun don't shine.

We can return to topic now, if there ever where any.


Cheers

And that is about language, rather than the objective fact of Reason which has not been laid out in an accessible way. Had the propellerheads from the start written something like "With a new mixer featuring EQs and comps modeled on the SSL 9000k..." it wouldn't be mistaken. The sentence "Record's software mixer's sound is faithfully modeled after the legendary british mixing console" made me mistake it for a mixer's sound and this was used in promotion of Record.

Source: http://www.propellerheads.se/products/r ... what-is-it