Reason Rack extension

[IncarnateX]

And that is about language

Agree that it is about anything but intentional lies of PH or Reason users.

[eXode]

And that is about language, rather than the objective fact of Reason which has not been laid out in an accessible way. Had the propellerheads from the start written something like "With a new mixer featuring EQs and comps modeled on the SSL 9000k..." it wouldn't be mistaken. The sentence "Record's software mixer's sound is faithfully modeled after the legendary british mixing console" made me mistake it for a mixer's sound and this was used in promotion of Record.

Source: http://www.propellerheads.se/products/r ... what-is-it

One could argue however that the dynamics, filters and eq's are part of the mixer. So depending on how you look upon it, you could say that the whole mixer is modeled or you could say that just certain sections of the mixer are modeled. But isn't that splitting hairs really? :)

[headquest]

I think it simply demonstrates that by making Reason a closed system with *that* mixer, they are able to make grand claims that (1) others with more open systems can't make but (2) are actually rather misleading...

Would anyone really claim that the Reason mixer - with it's built in effects - is definitively better than the Pro Tools mixer loaded with Waves plugs? Great though the Reason mixer is, I doubt any successful pro engineer would make that claim for it.

[headquest]

And that is about language

Agree that it is about anything but intentional lies of PH or Reason users.

Yes, who knows about *intention* ...?

But if you think back to the Record marketing campaign (I know you weren't a PH user even at that time, but the videos are still on YouTube) ... their tag line was "Recording Done Right" and they were strongly implying that Pro Tools, Logic, Cubendo, etc had all done it wrong for the previous two decades.

Now imagine if somebody signed up on KVR and started posting stuff like that about their favourite software. They would pretty quickly be called out as a troll and probably banned. And I think it is equally fair to point out that those types of marketing campaigns are needlessly antagonistic, ignorant and offensive.

The example of RE being "easy to install" is another more recent point... there's plenty of posts on the PUF that show users have not found it so easy. And as for Reason itself, each x.x.1 upgrade you need to spend hours downloading it, uninstall the previous one, uninstall codemeter, reinstall everything in the correct order... "Easy" is surely more like Ableton, where the whole thing updates itself in the background without you even knowing (for better or worse!).

Great product, but their marketing BS is way out of control I would say. But I wouldn't know if they intentionally lie... that's a whole other thing for sure.

[eXode]

Kind of pointless discussion because such greatness (or lack there of) is always in the eye of the beholder.

[eXode]

But if you think back to the Record marketing campaign (I know you weren't a PH user even at that time, but the videos are still on YouTube) ... their tag line was "Recording Done Right" and they were strongly implying that Pro Tools, Logic, Cubendo, etc had all done it wrong for the previous two decades.

I'm sorry but it's you who add that implication. It is your interpretation nothing more, nothing less.

[whyterabbyt]

Now imagine if somebody signed up on KVR and started posting stuff like that about their favourite software.

why do we have to imagine it? happens every f**king day. twenty times a day if there's been a 0.000000000001 update to Reaper.

[saturdaysaint]

The example of RE being "easy to install" is another more recent point... there's plenty of posts on the PUF that show users have not found it so easy. And as for Reason itself, each x.x.1 upgrade you need to spend hours downloading it, uninstall the previous one, uninstall codemeter, reinstall everything in the correct order... "Easy" is surely more like Ableton, where the whole thing updates itself in the background without you even knowing (for better or worse!).

I just set up Reason on a second system and installed all of my third-party plugins, including active demos, with literally a single click in my Props account. No logging onto multiple websites (or struggling to remember every plugin I use), no forfeiting demos, no opening zip files then running installers, no deleting a batch of finished installers. One click, and everything that I bought or started demoing, showed up. My other system is a Mac and this is a Windows system - no compatibility worries. Every plugin works the same, no asterisks.

Have there been "1.0" niggles for a minority of users? Definitely (not that I've experienced any). But REs most assuredly do address a lot of pain points in plugin system administration/installation.

[headquest]

But if you think back to the Record marketing campaign (I know you weren't a PH user even at that time, but the videos are still on YouTube) ... their tag line was "Recording Done Right" and they were strongly implying that Pro Tools, Logic, Cubendo, etc had all done it wrong for the previous two decades.

I'm sorry but it's you who add that implication. It is your interpretation nothing more, nothing less.

Not so. Here's the video link:



Note the section from 2'212 - 2'32" for example, where they go beyond making a fair point about some other software and make sweeping generalisations that suggest Record is the only software that is "intuitive" and suitable for musicians (watch it in context).

Then see what they say at 2'55": "smug engineers all over the world". On what planet is that NOT a rude put-down on what is elsewhere considered a respected profession?[/url]

[saturdaysaint]

I hardly see how marketing should be remotely interesting to supposed power users. I never hear IT administrators discussing the ins and outs of the latest Windows 8 promo. It's boring stuff meant to convey "Hey, you can make nice sounding music! This stuff does what expensive gear does, except it's in your computer!" If you base your buying decisions on YouTube promos and not expert reviews and your own research (Props have an open forum for these questions, as well as tons of amazing free resources for learning about any facet of their program), you deserve what you get.

Granted, I wish more of these would follow Ableton's lead and just show us the software being put to use by a knowledgeable musician with functional explanations for various features. Heck, it's more effective - those power user/trainer guys have sold me on more software than the glossiest network TV ads.

[IncarnateX]

But if you think back to the Record marketing campaign (I know you weren't a PH user even at that time, but the videos are still on YouTube) ... their tag line was "Recording Done Right" and they were strongly implying that Pro Tools, Logic, Cubendo, etc had all done it wrong for the previous two decades

Come on, It is marketing bs and nothing more. I have seen even worse campaigns but will not name them here, they are long gone. Anyone older than eight years old should be able to see through the crap. Eventually you can just download the demo and judge for yourself before buying the product.

Cheers

[headquest]

Come on, It is marketing bs and nothing more. I have seen even worse campaigns but will not name them here, they are long gone. Anyone older than eight years old should be able to see through the crap. Eventually you can just download the demo and judge for yourself before buying it.

Cheers

Sure. My point is that what somebody described as "lies" is probably such marketing BS. Not saying PH are unique in this - clearly not. Although I do think they are becoming increasingly dominated by it.

[IncarnateX]

Come on, It is marketing bs and nothing more. I have seen even worse campaigns but will not name them here, they are long gone. Anyone older than eight years old should be able to see through the crap. Eventually you can just download the demo and judge for yourself before buying it.

Cheers

Sure. My point is that what somebody described as "lies" is probably such marketing BS. Not saying PH are unique in this - clearly not. Although I do think they are becoming increasingly dominated by it.

That somebody tried to use the PH marketing bs to somehow prove that Reason users lies to defend Reason so he is not worth mentioning in any sane approach to the marketing question.

[headquest]

You see, when they refer top the mixer "sound" they refer to the eqs and compressors and not the mixer apart from those elements. They especially emphasize the effect of the bus compressor as the "secret sauce" and not the mixer in itself. Nowhere do they claim that it is a 100% precise modeling of the hardware unit. If anyone believes this, it is due to reading something into the text that is not there and or too little knowledge about the general limitations of software emulations, which will not sound 100% correct in any case. What the "punch" and "sparkle" concern, well these are just marketing buzz-words and shouldn't be taken seriously. It is an advertisement, for God's sake, not a scientific publication.

I think it is fairly unambiguous in the official launch video, from 3'00" to 3'10"



Quote: ...sound and signal processing faithfully modelled after the legendary SSK 9000K analog mixing desk..."

[headquest]

That somebody tried to use the PH marketing bs to somehow prove that Reason users lies to defend Reason so he is not worth mentioning in any sane approach to the marketing question.

I've certainly heard Reason users parrot the same BS that came from the adverts, and I've probably even done it myself when promoting Reason over the years.

Whether it is BS depends on whether you think PH succeeded in faithfully modelling the sound and signal path of the SSL as they claim