Reason Rack extension

[mrdr]

this shit again?

[IncarnateX]

You see, when they refer top the mixer "sound" they refer to the eqs and compressors and not the mixer apart from those elements. They especially emphasize the effect of the bus compressor as the "secret sauce" and not the mixer in itself. Nowhere do they claim that it is a 100% precise modeling of the hardware unit. If anyone believes this, it is due to reading something into the text that is not there and or too little knowledge about the general limitations of software emulations, which will not sound 100% correct in any case. What the "punch" and "sparkle" concern, well these are just marketing buzz-words and shouldn't be taken seriously. It is an advertisement, for God's sake, not a scientific publication.

I think it is fairly unambiguous in the official launch video, from 3'00" to 3'10"



Quote: ...sound and signal processing faithfully modelled after the legendary SSK 9000K analog mixing desk..."

1. SellYourSoul actually posted a link to the offical homepage to prove his point, the one I am quoting.
2. There is no evidence that the quote is an intentional lie. It might as well be a bad choice of expression, as flandersh thinks too, that they now have learned from, because at present I see no lies about the mixer at the actual homepage as my quotes show.

[eXode]

But if you think back to the Record marketing campaign (I know you weren't a PH user even at that time, but the videos are still on YouTube) ... their tag line was "Recording Done Right" and they were strongly implying that Pro Tools, Logic, Cubendo, etc had all done it wrong for the previous two decades.

I'm sorry but it's you who add that implication. It is your interpretation nothing more, nothing less.

Not so. Here's the video link:



Note the section from 2'212 - 2'32" for example, where they go beyond making a fair point about some other software and make sweeping generalisations that suggest Record is the only software that is "intuitive" and suitable for musicians (watch it in context).

Then see what they say at 2'55": "smug engineers all over the world". On what planet is that NOT a rude put-down on what is elsewhere considered a respected profession?[/url]

I think this just proved my point. Your interpretation, nothing else. I frankly can't see how a claim that "our software is intuitive" be turned to a "other software is crap" statement. That is a generous interpretation indeed.

[IncarnateX]

Whether it is BS depends on whether you think PH succeeded in faithfully modelling the sound and signal path of the SSL as they claim

In that case all who claims their software emulates hardware are liers, because they are never 100% correct emulations. You know that as well. It is a screwed logic you impose there imo. Besides it is a subjective question whether people thinks an emulation is really there, just see the different opions on emulation software at these sites.

Frankly I don't care how faithfull their emu is. What I don't like are idiots calling people liers for no valid reasons, especially if the ones he refers to (Reason Users) includes me, which it does at present.

[IncarnateX]

That somebody tried to use the PH marketing bs to somehow prove that Reason users lies to defend Reason so he is not worth mentioning in any sane approach to the marketing question.

I've certainly heard Reason users parrot the same BS that came from the adverts, and I've probably even done it myself when promoting Reason over the years.)

Having false believes and claim them is not the same as lying unless you know that they are false. I am getting tired of trying to make you Reason (user) critics realise that. I am writing to a bunch of high school drop-outs here?

[headquest]

I think this just proved my point. Your interpretation, nothing else. I frankly can't see how a claim that "our software is intuitive" be turned to a "other software is crap" statement. That is a generous interpretation indeed.

Probably not my interpretation only - I bet there are "smug engineers all over the world" who equally found the video bizarre at the best. And yes, having recorded as a session player in a couple of London studios in the past year the comments I've heard about Propellerhead / Reason make mine appear "generous" as you say

Seriously, that video has a script that might have been written by a group of students in the bar after a couple of drinks, not a professional company, unless their specific plan was to be antagonistic to the professional recording community the world over.

[headquest]

Frankly I don't care how faithfull their emu is. What I don't like are idiots calling people liers for no valid reasons, especially if the ones he refers to (Reason Users) includes me, which it does at present.

Moving on from the point about irritating marketing, I agree with you on this IncarnateX. There's no excuse for personal insults, and calling somebody or a group of people liars is offensive unless you have proof of intention. Then again, you just called him an idiot, which is also an unnecessary personal insult

[headquest]

Having false believes and claim them is not the same as lying unless you know that they are false.

Absolutely. I'm not calling anyone a liar, and I don't agree with the person who did.

However, I've shown you where the original claim about the sound and signal path being faithfully modelled came from: Propellerhead advertising. It's perfectly possible that they genuinely believe they have faithfully modelled the sound and signal path of an SSL mixer. Seriously. You decide.

It's equally possible that Ernst genuinely believes all the points he made about VST in his NAMM presentation. I doubt he deliberately wanted to mislead anyone - he's just perhaps out of touch with the reality of the rest of the industry.

It's quite ironic though - in an interview in Computer Music around 2005 he criticised Mackie for their Tracktion 2 marketing campaign being negative. People in glass houses, etc.

[IncarnateX]

Then again, you just called him an idiot, which is also an unnecessary personal insult

Yes. But it is the truth.

[drez]

The example of RE being "easy to install" is another more recent point... there's plenty of posts on the PUF that show users have not found it so easy. And as for Reason itself, each x.x.1 upgrade you need to spend hours downloading it, uninstall the previous one, uninstall codemeter, reinstall everything in the correct order... "Easy" is surely more like Ableton, where the whole thing updates itself in the background without you even knowing (for better or worse!).

I just set up Reason on a second system and installed all of my third-party plugins, including active demos, with literally a single click in my Props account. No logging onto multiple websites (or struggling to remember every plugin I use), no forfeiting demos, no opening zip files then running installers, no deleting a batch of finished installers. One click, and everything that I bought or started demoing, showed up. My other system is a Mac and this is a Windows system - no compatibility worries. Every plugin works the same, no asterisks.

Have there been "1.0" niggles for a minority of users? Definitely (not that I've experienced any). But REs most assuredly do address a lot of pain points in plugin system administration/installation.

This is my exact experience as well. I have had zero problems and I've reinstalled with the 6.5.1 update. Took like 10 minutes and everything was fine. I even removed all my RE's and had them reinstall.

Nothing on the market does this with 3rd party plugins this easily. If there is, I'm not aware of it.

[IncarnateX]

I wonder if there are any known cases of people who have regret buying Reason and have felt they were mislead by PH marketing strategies?

I must say that if you buy a piece of software due to the marketing promises only, regrets must be on your own account. Especially when there is a fairly well working demo as in case of Reason.

In my case, I have at least two times waited eagerly for the release of a product due to promises; The DCAM synths and DIVA. Both times because they said that finally the perfect emulation of analog hardware had arrived in a way that almost made me believe it. In both cases I simply loaded the demos, got fairly dissapointed and skipped the deals.

It is as simple as that isn't it?

[headquest]

Then again, you just called him an idiot, which is also an unnecessary personal insult

Yes. But it is the truth.

He has a different perspective to yours, but that doesn't necessarily make him an "idiot".

I think you perhaps meant to imply I'm a "high school dropout" in your subsequent post... again, I don't understand the need to resort to insults

If I posted a photo of my music degree certificate, my postgrad certificate from the Royal College of Music, links to my music books with sales worldwide in tens of thousands, etc... who would look like the idiot then? But personal stuff is pointless distraction from the main topic, so how about we leave it out?

Actually some of the people you think are idiots have been using Reason for many years, compared to your few weeks, and have produced some great music with it. You may even have a thing or two to learn from them

Peace.

[IncarnateX]

He has a different perspective to yours, but that doesn't necessarily make him an "idiot".

Yes it does because his perspective is idiotic.

Actually some of the people you think are idiots have been using Reason for many years, compared to your few weeks, and have produced some great music with it. You may even have a thing or two to learn from them

I have ABSOLUTELY no respect for people who spend their most their time criticizing a piece of software instead of making music or at least find a piece of software they like. And you among others has spend an incredible amount of time around here at KVR criticizing Reason and PH to such an extend that people started believing you were paid for it. Now shitting all over a piece of software to such an extend as you and Myrna has are close to being insults to those who like it, so don't play holy towards me. If there were the slightest of constructive elements in your criticism I haven't noticed and KVR wouldn't certainly not be the right place to for you to post it, you should do that in the PH forums. I am from a time where you had to save up for synths for years and where 4 tape track recorders were nothing less than miracles. In this light, just about all, and mean ALL what people have complained about Reason and PH appear to me like it comes from fiftheen year old spoiled little tweenie twats that have NO CLUE what modern technology has to offer then. And this is not meant as an insult. Just a plain fact that this is the picture I get in my head. It was nice to see you actually write something positive about reason in the fanboy thread, but I guess that this were just a little side step from your part and that you now are ready to continue your crusade against PH. And I seriously doubt that I can learn anything from this pathetic, pedantic, intensive legalist studying of Propellerhead's poops that you and your fellows are into.

Peace.

Piss off

[mrdr]

once he said what he really meant
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 75#4976875

Agreed. But I think that commercial success will come about because of their (deliberately misleading) marketing campaigns, the sycophancy of a couple of music magazines, and the blind loyalty of some users.

Propellerhead are unquestioningly brilliant at generating a buzz around their products. And they apparently have no moral qualms about deliberately spreading misinformation, negativity, and lies about their competitors.

It seems to me worthwhile to challenge that, to provide some balance to their propaganda, in the hope that potential customers can actually access a range of opinions from current and previous Reason users and other musicians with experience and knowledge about music software.

To put it another way - a significant proportion of the Reason users I know bought the software because they were ignorant of alternatives and unaware of Reason's profound limitations. If threads like this can show up in Google, then it might help prevent more musicians from making uninformed choices

[IncarnateX]

once he said what he really meant
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 75#4976875

Agreed. But I think that commercial success will come about because of their (deliberately misleading) marketing campaigns, the sycophancy of a couple of music magazines, and the blind loyalty of some users.

Propellerhead are unquestioningly brilliant at generating a buzz around their products. And they apparently have no moral qualms about deliberately spreading misinformation, negativity, and lies about their competitors.

It seems to me worthwhile to challenge that, to provide some balance to their propaganda, in the hope that potential customers can actually access a range of opinions from current and previous Reason users and other musicians with experience and knowledge about music software.

To put it another way - a significant proportion of the Reason users I know bought the software because they were ignorant of alternatives and unaware of Reason's profound limitations. If threads like this can show up in Google, then it might help prevent more musicians from making uninformed choices

Yeah. Based on the assumption that everyone else than the critics of PH are 40% less intelligent than a piece of plywood.