MuLab 4.4.2

[sl23]

Reaper was named as an example here:
1. it was stated, you can and may use the demo as long as you like unrestricted... this is completely wrong...
Copied from Cockos:
"If after 30 days you decide that REAPER is not for you, simply delete it.

If you decide that REAPER is for you, you must purchase a license. "

Means, Reaper offers no free version, it's a time limited demo version, valid for 30 days... if you use it after the period has expired, it's nothing but illegal...

2. The generousity of staying a full working copy (besides the nag screen on programm start) is based on the fact, that cockos is a company owned by a multi millionair, who doesn't need to make any income anymore...
With enough money it's easy to be generous

Totally agreed on this one, though. If you use it, you buy it. People mess around because 0.97 or something and earlier did have a free version (and we're on 4.x now...).

This wasn't a moral debate this was about whether there are free demos. Yes it's illegal to use past 30 days, but I'm not sure if you're aware, there are many immoral people in the world who WILL take advantage of that fact.

[Trancit]

Reaper was named as an example here:
1. it was stated, you can and may use the demo as long as you like unrestricted... this is completely wrong...
Copied from Cockos:
"If after 30 days you decide that REAPER is not for you, simply delete it.

If you decide that REAPER is for you, you must purchase a license. "

Means, Reaper offers no free version, it's a time limited demo version, valid for 30 days... if you use it after the period has expired, it's nothing but illegal...

2. The generousity of staying a full working copy (besides the nag screen on programm start) is based on the fact, that cockos is a company owned by a multi millionair, who doesn't need to make any income anymore...
With enough money it's easy to be generous

Totally agreed on this one, though. If you use it, you buy it. People mess around because 0.97 or something and earlier did have a free version (and we're on 4.x now...).

This wasn't a moral debate this was about whether there are free demos. Yes it's illegal to use past 30 days, but I'm not sure if you're aware, there are many immoral people in the world who WILL take advantage of that fact.

OK, with your argumentation, there are many "free" versions on the market, like those with the little addon "H2O", "Air", "Dynamics", "Assign" and whatever these groups are called making these "Try before buy" unrestricted "Demos"...

Sorry, but this is no base for the question how limited a ("real") free can/shall be or not...

[Trancit]

And I think it's best, that I leave this topic...

My postings were taken as offense, which wasn't intended, so best thing I can do now is shut up...

[Nickl]

The whole subject of free vs demo versions is a bit of a minefield. The main point I was trying to make is that I thought that Jo had got the balance about right with his original ( well as of mulab 2) free offering.

I mentioned that I looked at other free DAWS - one of these was Reaper 0.97. Since I was looking for something I could use long term for free, and I won't knowingly use software illegally, for me there was no point in downloading the demo version. I thought the free version was rubbish so, despite all the positive things I read about Reaper, the brand is permanently tarnished for me.

[sl23]

And I think it's best, that I leave this topic...

My postings were taken as offense, which wasn't intended, so best thing I can do now is shut up...

Sorry Trancit, I didn't take offense and none was meant, just making a point, but yes I see what you mean about those other illegal softwares so my argument is a bit null there.

Actually I like the idea of being able to use VST's by using the Load/Replace instead of the VST manager. At least there's no real restriction with regards to accessing the VST's you own then.

[hma]

About demo restrictions- I find it useless to try out a daw that in demo mode has restrictions that cripple workflow. While trying out I want to work as comfortably as possible and see what kind of new possibilities it offers and not to be constantly pissed off by something that can not be done because it's demo. So 30 day fully functional try out period IMHO is the best way to demo. Also Renoise's demo restrictions are good example of doing it right:

no ASIO support on Windows
rendering to .wav is disabled
rendering/resampling selections is disabled
rendering/freezing plugin instruments to samples is disabled
nag screens
as ReWire Master, only the first stereo input bus will be available
as ReWire Slave, Renoise will occasionally generate a small subtle hiss

[re8]

Yes it's illegal to use past 30 days, but I'm not sure if you're aware, there are many immoral people in the world who WILL take advantage of that fact.

The crack rate (bootleg users vs payed users) is about 90% for most software.

[re8]

More generally: If it was up to you guys to dimension MuLab Free - MuLab XT - MuLab UL, then what figures would you use? It's about a balance of being attractive and being realistic business-wise.

I think your prices are a bit too low IMHO; I would expect about $200USD if not more for the flagship model, though Reaper does put downward price pressure.

[liquidsound]

Totally agree with re8.
Yes Reaper puts pressure but Reaper also raise my blood pressure as well
No way as fluid as MuLab or powerful compared to MuLab modularity when you realize that it comes with a built-in MUX!
But the market is a little difficult lately and Jo is wisely marketing appropriately.

I still think a 30 day full demo expiring to a free edition should cover the needs of all testers and eliminate most criticism.
But again it may no be possible.

[braj]

Personally I feel Mulab is a bit sparse, I think the price as it stands is fair but I don't know if I could make it my full-time DAW. Stuff like the groove feature in Studio One for example, or the midi editing in Ligic for example can command the $200 price, but Mulab I think needs some maturing before it can really compete in that group. Which is fine, a relatively simple host for a fair price competes very well with Reaper which is anything but simple. I think it is priced very well and need to get a few bucks together to buy a copy myself.

[pljones]

And this is, where you are wrong... 0 VST's doesn't mean you cannot load/use VST plugins...this limitation affects only the VST Manager, but with the Load/Replace dialog you can load VSTs...

No, this is where you are wrong. It doesn't only affect the VST Manager. It affects what you hear. When you use a VST plugin in a project, your audio output will be interrupted and hence you will not hear the VST doing what you are expecting it to. At which point, someone just trying out MuLab to see if they like it might go "Oh, well, no point if I can't even try out a VST".

[liquidsound]

Personally I feel Mulab is a bit sparse, I think the price as it stands is fair but I don't know if I could make it my full-time DAW. Stuff like the groove feature in Studio One for example, or the midi editing in Ligic for example can command the $200 price, but Mulab I think needs some maturing before it can really compete in that group. Which is fine, a relatively simple host for a fair price competes very well with Reaper which is anything but simple. I think it is priced very well and need to get a few bucks together to buy a copy myself.

Take a closer look at the Pianoroll tools and options. It's quite above its price range.

[braj]

Personally I feel Mulab is a bit sparse, I think the price as it stands is fair but I don't know if I could make it my full-time DAW. Stuff like the groove feature in Studio One for example, or the midi editing in Ligic for example can command the $200 price, but Mulab I think needs some maturing before it can really compete in that group. Which is fine, a relatively simple host for a fair price competes very well with Reaper which is anything but simple. I think it is priced very well and need to get a few bucks together to buy a copy myself.

Take a closer look at the Pianoroll tools and options. It's quite above its price range.

I'm not seeing it, like what exactly?

[liquidsound]

Right click in the Pianoroll and go through the functions menu.
Same right click in the Pianoroll you'll have access at the Edit in List Editor and the values are editable.
Logical selector.....

You don't find that stuff in this price range.

[braj]

Right click in the Pianoroll and go through the functions menu.
Same right click in the Pianoroll you'll have access at the Edit in List Editor and the values are editable.
Logical selector.....

You don't find that stuff in this price range.

Well that doesn't do much for me personally, the piano roll is still sparse, audio editing is primitive. I love MUX and MuLab is great for what it is, but I think it is a dis-service to the cause to suggest it is a $200 DAW.