Using a VU meter plugin for proper gain staging

[TreyM]

So,

I bought a VU meter plugin about a week ago. I bought this plugin out of a need to learn proper gain staging in my daw, and mix using the K-System which I have since found to be quite liberating.

The things I am going to write below will work with any meter that allows you to change the 0db point relative to a number you set in relation to your DAW's peak meter.

I would like to go over the way I have things setup, and hopefully learn something new about gain staging in a DAW from those who know the subject better than I.

I did some research on my USB Interface (Tascam US-1641) to see where Tascam calibrated the A/D convertors in this particular device. From the manual I learned that my interface's convertors are calibrated so that 0dbVU = -16dbFS. Which is to say:

dbFS = Digital Full Scale, or basically what your DAW shows you on it's peak meters
dbVU = what is considered a line level signal. (someone correct me if I'm wrong here)

All of that basically means that my interface's A/D (analog to digital) converters perform at their best when the material is averaging -16db in the daw's peak meters.

So, with that knowledge I knew I needed to make sure my signals were coming into the daw at the proper level, so I went looking for a VU Style meter that would allow me to set it's "0" value to -16dbFS. In this way, I could get the psychological satisfaction of hitting 0db on my meter while the A/D convertor in my interface remained happy.

First I went looking for PSP Vintage Meter but soon found that it's not available on OSX as a universal binary and it isn't 64 bit. I eventually found another plugin which served my purpose just fine. Once in my DAW I set out to configure the plugin to show -16dbFS as 0db on it's meter for each track I record. I set the plugin to PPM mode so that I could get an accurate visual of the peaks my A/D convertor was getting. (my metering plugin has two modes "VU" and "PPM." VU shows more of an RMS value, and PPM shows peak signal.)

I then placed another instance on my main bus configured for the K-System at the K-14 level in VU mode, where 0db on the plugin's meter = -14dbFS. So now, as I mix, I aim for 0db on the plugin meter on my main bus which in turn gives me about 14db of headroom for any peaks!

I am very happy with the results. After YEARS of recording as a hobby, I am just learning to take gain staging seriously, and that is quite sad. But mixing has become so much easier and for that I am very happy.

If anyone has any tips for me or any corrections that I need to make, please let me know.

Edit: Edited to remove reference to the specific plugin that I bought to avoid marketing accusations.

[alteregoxxx]

Hi, IMHO this story of a proper gain staging is a little overrated....recording at -16 dBFS you'll have a lower S/N ratio; if your converters are of good quality (and at today, even the standard generic converters, are really good...) they will perform equally well with signals with peaking values like -6 dBfs or so, but you will gain about 10 dB S/N ratio (so better...)
Even with analog equipment 0dBu is merely a referring point: good analog equipment have their maximum input level in a range between +19 dBu and +28 dBu...and for maximum input level, generally speaking, the constructors mean that the equipment remains highly linear,clean,low thd...
Obviously if you use analog equipment/analog modeled plugins that tends to saturate "badly" or become "non linear" (in a bad way) with high input level signals gain staging can be more useful
On the other hand isn't a common opinion that analog has to be pushed to get "that great sound"? Isn't this story of the gain staging smells like a marketing thing (contradictory on the other hand...)? IMHO yes

[TreyM]

Hi, IMHO this story of a proper gain staging is a little overrated....recording at -16 dBFS you'll have a lower S/N ratio; if your converters are of good quality (and at today, even the standard generic converters, are really good...) they will perform equally well with signals with peaking values like -6 dBfs or so, but you will gain about 10 dB S/N ratio (so better...)
Even with analog equipment 0dBu is merely a referring point: good analog equipment have their maximum input level in a range between +19 dBu and +28 dBu...and for maximum input level, generally speaking, the constructors mean that the equipment remains highly linear,clean,low thd...
Obviously if you use analog equipment/analog modeled plugins that tends to saturate "badly" or become "non linear" (in a bad way) with high input level signals gain staging can be more useful
On the other hand isn't a common opinion that analog has to be pushed to get "that great sound"? Isn't this story of the gain staging smells like a marketing thing (contradictory on the other hand...)? IMHO yes

Smells like marketing? What a complete jerk, crap thing to say to someone simply trying to make a helpful post. I am in no way worshipping a plugin here. If anything I am praising gain staging. In fact, I said that what I'm doing will work on ANY meter that allows you to change reference level. Ozone's meters can do K-System. FabFilter's Pro-L can do K-System.

Gain staging is important to me because I do use plugins that are looking for -18dbfs signals, (some Waves stuff) and S/N Ratio is nearly irrelevant at 24-bit compared to 16-bit, the noise floor is ridiculously low. In my current quest for mixing headroom, I do not feel it is required to be driving the hell out of my analog modeled plugins on everything. In fact, back in the analog days, most engineers AVOIDED saturation to begin with as much as they possibly could with some exceptions. But I did ask for those with more knowledge on the subject to enlighten me on my understanding of the subject. So for that, I thank you for responding. But allow me to add that I am highly annoyed that instead of a simple friendly reply, you accused me of something sneaky.

I have edited out all references to the particular plugin I use in the OP. Have a good day and don't bother replying to me again if it's with the same crappy attitude. I'm not interested. Take your "honest opinion" about me and my post, and your "rolleyes" emoticon elsewhere. Thanks.

[Teksonik]

But allow me to add that I am highly annoyed that instead of a simple friendly reply, you accused me of something sneaky.
Have a good day and don't bother replying to me again if it's with the same crappy attitude. I'm not interested. Take your "honest opinion" about me and my post, and your "rolleyes" emoticon elsewhere. Thanks.

Wow just as a casual observer after reading both posts I think you might have over reacted a tad bit there Trey.......

[TreyM]

But allow me to add that I am highly annoyed that instead of a simple friendly reply, you accused me of something sneaky.
Have a good day and don't bother replying to me again if it's with the same crappy attitude. I'm not interested. Take your "honest opinion" about me and my post, and your "rolleyes" emoticon elsewhere. Thanks.

Wow just as a casual observer after reading both posts I think you might have over reacted a tad bit there Trey.......

Perhaps you're right. But still... can a guy not even mention a plugin and it's uses without being accused of guerilla marketing? It was kind of low and unwarranted considering I'm fairly new post wise around here.

[Teksonik]

I didn't get the feeling he was accusing you of any marketing shenanigans but maybe I'm reading it wrong. I'm sure he'll be back to clarify his opinion......

[TreyM]

I didn't get the feeling he was accusing you of any marketing shenanigans but maybe I'm reading it wrong. I'm sure he'll be back to clarify his opinion......

If I was mistaken and he explains what he meant, I will apologize. Otherwise, let's move on to the topic if we could.

Do you have any advice concerning gain staging?

[alteregoxxx]

I didn't get the feeling he was accusing you of any marketing shenanigans but maybe I'm reading it wrong. I'm sure he'll be back to clarify his opinion......

If I was mistaken and he explains what he meant, I will apologize. Otherwise, let's move on to the topic if we could.

Do you have any advice concerning gain staging?

I apologize for my english, i know...i'm italian but...i think that was clear from what i wrote that i was not accusing YOU of marketing...i meant this thing of "the proper gain staging" smells like marketing, (so VU meters plugins,meters and so on jumps out like mushrooms...) not YOUR topic...
You're a bit rude man Good gain staging day...

[TreyM]

I apologize for my english, i know...i'm italian but...i think that was clear from what i wrote that i was not accusing YOU of marketing...i meant this thing of "the proper gain staging" smells like marketing, (so VU meters plugins,meters and so on jumps out like mushrooms...) not YOUR topic...
You're a bit rude man Good gain staging day...

Ah! That explains it! Lost in translation. My apologies for my misunderstanding. Now that you have explained it, I understand where you were coming from. But I can assure you, proper gain staging is not a marketing thing. Analog equipment still operates well below signal levels that full scale digital db can go. In the days before digital, 0db was the same as -18dbFS on average! The plugins that I use that model analog circuitry, (for example Waves stuff) is actually calibrated this way as well. They require a signal coming in at -18dbFS just like the real thing to operate like the real thing.

[alteregoxxx]

I apologize for my english, i know...i'm italian but...i think that was clear from what i wrote that i was not accusing YOU of marketing...i meant this thing of "the proper gain staging" smells like marketing, (so VU meters plugins,meters and so on jumps out like mushrooms...) not YOUR topic...
You're a bit rude man Good gain staging day...

Analog equipment still operates well below signal levels that full scale digital db can go. In the days before digital, 0db was the same as -18dbFS on average! The plugins that I use that model analog circuitry, (for example Waves stuff) is actually calibrated this way as well. They require a signal coming in at -18dbFS just like the real thing to operate like the real thing.

Well, what i meant to say is that more than often analog equipment get "pushed" with levels a lot higher than 0dBu to get what is commonly considered "the good vibe" of an analog path; so the story of the conservative use of the levels (read proper gain staging) is at least a bit contradictory...
Think a moment: marketing advices claim that digital plugins sounds "sterile" because you can't push them, hence you buy analog modeled plugins that sounds good when pushed and then you get "advised" that you have to low your record levels at 0dBu otherwise this "analog plugins" will sound worse...what the....?!?!

[Compyfox]

First and foremost, take a dive into my KVRmarks - I've covered the topic plenty of times. Then, head over to GearSlutz and find the thread "why ITB mixes sound not as good". And then, take another dive over to RhythmInMind's blog regarding calibrating your DAW to hardware and back.


Then:
FORGET THE K-SYSTEM FOR MIXING! It's not(!) made for that. Focus on your VU/Digital Meter combo only. You can raise the loudness at a later state while mastering - either to new EBU standards or K-14 maximum!

ALSO:
Ignore your AD/DA's SNR. With 24bit, you have a dynamic range of over 120dB, with a noise floor of usually around -110dBFS to -90dBFS. Speak: barely noticable. Heck even my active monitors have a louder hiss!



In short (a summary how I do it, and it's well accepted across the boards):
Equipment used:
- for leveling in the signal, I use Cubase's on channel strip gain knob
- my DAW's digital meter (Cubase, I changed the bargraph color codes to -inf to -18dBFS digital = green, -18dBFS digital to -9dBFS digital = yellow, -9dBFS digital to +inf = red)
- a fully configurable VU (in my case, Klanghelm VUMT, setup to 300ms rise/fall, -18dB reference level)
- my hardware is calibrated to -18dBFS (measured in with several sine signal generators and Behringer's CT100 cable tester)

If you work ITB, the last step is non-important


How to use:
- to adjust the incoming signal of the channel strip, I use Cubase's own gain/trim knob. This let me use plugins independent

- level in your incoming signal so that it doesn't exceed 0VU (resembles -18dBFS) on bass intensive signal and/or -9dBFS digital on transient heavy signal (this is why I say use BOTH a VU and a Digital meter. PPM's with 5ms are NOT accurate and should leave a -9dBFS headroom! - read up on whitepapers or the Peak Program Meter article on Wikipedia)

- mix to taste with pan/volume

- don't mess with gain compensation while EQing (doesn't matter)

- use gain compensation while compressing (A/B should have the same perceived loudness)


On summing, don't let your peaks reach -6dBFS to -3dBFS digital and/or your VU on the master don't exceed +1dB (300ms rise/fall, -18dB=0VU), and you should never even reach K-14, which in turn(!) is great if you work in EBU type standards. Usually if I do that, I hover around -16dBFS on average signal level maximum.



Advantages are apparent already (modern plugins using a reference level), so no need to go more in-depth.


No need to argue. Do whatever you think suits best. If your reference level of desire is -16dBFS, so be it. But SMTPE and EBU type reference levels are -20dBFS and -18dBFS respectively. If in doubt, measure your gear and calibrate accordingly.


And no, I'm not doing guerillia marketing - longterm users on KVR know my crazy thoughts on this topic. And I know both sides of the medal as well.

[koalaboy]

^^^^^^^^

What he said

[TreyM]

Great reply Compyfox. Very good info. Thank you so much for the reply.

Concerning the -16dbFS value, I usually use the Logic Gain plugin to drop a couple db to -18dbFS before hitting a plugin that wants a -18dbFS signal. I just read that it's a good idea to record at the levels your hardware is calibrated to, which in my case would be -16dbFS. On my friend's Presonus Firestudio Tube it's -12dbFS oddly. And on another friend's Presonus Firepod, it's -18dbFS.

[Compyfox]

You're definitely sure that you didn't mess with jumpers (internal) or input gain, etc? Also remember, not every VU is callibrated correctly, heck some manuals are even a definite horror scenario (Behringer being a prime(!!!) example).


Ideal levels of hardware depends - especially if the hardware is old (read: 40+ years, sometimes even consumer stuff within the last 10 years) - then chances are, it's not calibrated properly. Like earlier mentioned, nowaday noise floors are beyond easy recognition (-100dBFS to -86dBFS) and other attached components might falsify your readouts as well. And such "ideal levels" of the module also depend if you want to incorporate external devices or not. Then you can still compensate within your DAW - again, I recommend to hit the RhythmInMind blog about this.

It's save however to constantly work at -18dBFS = 0VU to -9dBFS digital peak maximum for individual channels, and -18dBFS = 0VU (+/-1dB VU) to -6dBFS digital peak on the summing bus. Then you're at the ideal hotspot for all kinds of plugins, and you have plenty of headroom (both loudness and peak wise) for mastering engineers to either go the EBU Loudness route (which will have a significant meaning in the future, not only while broadcast currently) or for the now somewhat outdated K-System (I recommend K-14 Amber Zone +2 maximum!).



It's time I finally write a series about metering tools on my blog (for cross-linking).

[Fred_Abstract]

Hi, IMHO this story of a proper gain staging is a little overrated....recording at -16 dBFS you'll have a lower S/N ratio; if your converters are of good quality (and at today, even the standard generic converters, are really good...) they will perform equally well with signals with peaking values like -6 dBfs or so, but you will gain about 10 dB S/N ratio (so better...)
Even with analog equipment 0dBu is merely a referring point: good analog equipment have their maximum input level in a range between +19 dBu and +28 dBu...and for maximum input level, generally speaking, the constructors mean that the equipment remains highly linear,clean,low thd...
Obviously if you use analog equipment/analog modeled plugins that tends to saturate "badly" or become "non linear" (in a bad way) with high input level signals gain staging can be more useful
On the other hand isn't a common opinion that analog has to be pushed to get "that great sound"? Isn't this story of the gain staging smells like a marketing thing (contradictory on the other hand...)? IMHO yes

+1
but maybe it's some modern analog equipment that a have very high input range, not sure about vintage analog gears.