u-he

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:55 am

Lotuzia wrote:Also the semi vector controllers now commonly found on keyboards...

Exactly the reason why I use a Roland keyboard (Edirol PCR-500)

I can't stand seperate modulation and pitch wheels

The "Roland sticks" are just soooo much more expressive imo. And one basically just needs one finger to use them.

And yes, the aftertouch on my keyboard is beyond horrible but I guess I got used to it

Cheers
Dennis

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:57 am

Korg's joysticks are much better than Roland's retarded "I can go up but can't go down" sticks.

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:59 am

Lotuzia wrote:But if you want to cut the apple in two, and, for some patches, really want that no one miss a particular expression, you can always duplicate the AFT action similar to what does the MW.

Yes, except that I like to have at least two independant sound bending controls during performance, preferably three (e.g. mod wheel, another CC, aftertouch).

BTW there's a good workaround in Zebra2 - use a ModMixer in "fade1/2 by 3xc" mode with the following settings:

Mod1 = Atouch
Mod2 = ModWhl
Mod3 = ModWhl

...and turn Constant up to maximum

. This method ensures that whichever control you use (in this case mod wheel or aftertouch), the source will always add up to unity. BTW I guess you can also do this in ACE using a multiple (haven't tried that yet).

Shabdahbriah · Post by **Shabdahbriah** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:51 am

EvilDragon wrote:Korg's joysticks are much better than Roland's retarded "I can go up but can't go down" sticks.

OMG!!! I quit buying Roland synths for THAT very reason... even demoing them in a store, I'd nearly tear a finger off (o.k. that's a bit over stated) forgetting that it is (essentially) *broken* from the factory... can not stand it.

My Korg Karma on the other hand

I like aftertouch, btw.

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:57 am

Howard wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:But if you want to cut the apple in two, and, for some patches, really want that no one miss a particular expression, you can always duplicate the AFT action similar to what does the MW.
Yes, except that I like to have at least two independant sound bending controls during performance, preferably three (e.g. mod wheel, another CC, aftertouch).

BTW there's a good workaround in Zebra2 - use a ModMixer in "fade1/2 by 3xc" mode with the following settings:

Mod1 = Atouch
Mod2 = ModWhl
Mod3 = ModWhl

...and turn Constant up to maximum . This method ensures that whichever control you use (in this case mod wheel or aftertouch), the source will always add up to unity. BTW I guess you can also do this in ACE using a multiple (haven't tried that yet).

Nice.

Yes thats why I said this technique can be used only on certain patches, and only if you suspect that aftertouh wont be used by certain users, but need to be certain a particular expression will be available for most users. ( to try to answer your question so )

While we're at tips, it can be made in a different way with Oxium, for example, where I like to have offer most of times 4 different easy expression features for each patch : Mod Wheel, PB +, PB-, and a combination of monoAFT+PolyAFT+Breath Controler ( wich is called expression there ) So this ensures that even if I duplicate the AFT to Mod Wheel, there's some left. Each of these can have two destinations btw, its very easy to assign, as all have their dedicated mini mod matrix.

But like I said aftertouch is a must. You should not drop it imvho. Ymmv ( though it seems you answered yourself to your question )

LtZ

V-Synth · Post by **V-Synth** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:13 am

I always use aftertouch, nothing like it for playing expressive pads etc. especially good for swells of orchestral strings.

You need a synth with a very responsive aftertouch though, so Roland from my experience with Fantom and A-800Pro is not the way to go!

Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Motif, Korg Triton...these are synths I have owned that have very good aftertouch response.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:40 pm

It just occurred to me maybe Howard is looking at it from a different perspective.
AT is clearly a players feature. I wonder how many people who use uhe products are players? Are the majority really primarily using $200 49 key controllers or even just editing in the grid? If that is the case the patches would be setup in a way that is not constructive to the user. Although, I guess I could argue that it is just as easy to automate/edit AT as it is any other controller data.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:50 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Korg's joysticks are much better than Roland's retarded "I can go up but can't go down" sticks.

+1
rsp

xh3rv · Post by **xh3rv** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:51 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:I wonder how many people who use uhe products are players?

(OK, that was stupid, sorry)

I think you're right to make the distinction, I think the obvious conclusion is taking AT away from people who use it is worse than giving it to people that don't.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:12 pm

It's just a matter of information or education. This thread shows that there are people who do not know what 'aftertouch' is let alone how to use it, hence each 'read me' note or any guide that comes with the product needs a paragraph about aftertouch and its uses. Those who are not players could then find out how easy and convenient it is to draw aftertouch data in a host in the piano roll, something SJ_Digriz already mentions.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:21 pm

AT in the PR? are you kidding?

its a players feature, expression feeling touch....you dont draw it in in the PR. If you are going to do that, automate the parameter AT is assigned to, dont automate AT

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:26 pm

Thanks everybody for the insights! No worries, I'm not dropping Aftertouch "support" (that was highly unlikely anyway)...

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:27 pm

Kriminal wrote:AT in the PR? are you kidding?

its a players feature, expression feeling touch....you dont draw it in in the PR. If you are going to do that, automate the parameter AT is assigned to, dont automate AT

The preset could have AT controlling 3 different parameters...

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:31 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Kriminal wrote:AT in the PR? are you kidding?

its a players feature, expression feeling touch....you dont draw it in in the PR. If you are going to do that, automate the parameter AT is assigned to, dont automate AT

The preset could have AT controlling 3 different parameters...

It could be but its unlikely and doesnt matter. Like others have said its a physical feature.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:38 pm

Kriminal wrote:AT in the PR? are you kidding?

its a players feature, expression feeling touch....you dont draw it in in the PR. If you are going to do that, automate the parameter AT is assigned to, dont automate AT

Why would I be kidding? What parameter would you grab to access what has been programmed for aftertouch if it may have several carefully chose ones, with specific ranges?

This is for those who do not play and yet would like to have some extra expression available via controller data. They simply draw the envelope in the piano roll controller pane. Simple and easy.

Another example.
I sometimes work on location with a two octave midi controller which sadly does not have aftertouch, so the only way to access it is via piano roll automation.

u-he

KVR Audio

Do you need Aftertouch?

Do you need aftertouch?