Bar mode in event graph editor

[Reincke]

It happens often while subsequently changing the velocity of a single note in a chord that I cannot grab the correct velocity bar, even if I highlight the related note. Then I have to translate the note a bit left or right, change velocity and push the note back to it's previous position.
Does anybody know a better workaround? Thank you in advance.

BTW: Is there any other parameter than "velocity" that allows editing in "bar mode"? I wonder why even rarely occuring events (e.g. parameter "Mute") get edited in curve mode.
JR

[pljones]

Velocity is a parameter of the Note On event, so it's tied to a specific note, to which the bar pertains -- that's why you can't edit velocity in curve mode.

As to why you can't edit other events using bars... That would effectively mean quantising MIDI CC (or VST Parameter) changes to some grid and that would mean choosing some grid, as there's no inherent tie to any particular note. I can think of times I'd like to be able to snap the curve editor points to specific positions ... just usually slightly before the Note On events, so they take effect in the right order.

I think the bar editor could be made easier to use by changing the pointer to an I-bar style or something, so you could properly see which bar was being selected.

[Reincke]

Velocity is a parameter of the Note On event, so it's tied to a specific note, to which the bar pertains -- that's why you can't edit velocity in curve mode.
...
I think the bar editor could be made easier to use by changing the pointer to an I-bar style or something, so you could properly see which bar was being selected.

Thank you, pljones. I think I haven't pointed out the problem precisely. Sorry for combining two questions in one post.

First I absolutely agree to bar mode for velocity. I just would like to have more control about which bar I'm selecting. While I'm editing my songs from scratch, all note events of one chord are usually placed exactly at the same position, so I cannot select more properly by an I-bar cursor or zoom-in, I think.

It would be fine if an highlighted note event would be preferred when dragging it's bar (feature request). But maybe there is another easy workaround that I haven't yet found.

As to why you can't edit other events using bars... That would effectively mean quantising MIDI CC (or VST Parameter) changes to some grid and that would mean choosing some grid, as there's no inherent tie to any particular note. I can think of times I'd like to be able to snap the curve editor points to specific positions ... just usually slightly before the Note On events, so they take effect in the right order.

That relates to my second question: I thought all (!) events are quantised, at least at tick level. For rarely occuring parameter events it would be fine to switch to a bar mode (another feature request), which can easier be edited than a curve. (And of course - those bars wouldn't correspond to a note event.)
JR

[pljones]

While I'm editing my songs from scratch, all note events of one chord are usually placed exactly at the same position, so I cannot select more properly by an I-bar cursor or zoom-in, I think.

Ah, right, I gotcha. Yes, selecting the note and then having the bar stay selected would be a neat feature (at least as a mode to toggle into - most of the time I want to be able to click the bar to select it).

[liquidsound]

While I'm editing my songs from scratch, all note events of one chord are usually placed exactly at the same position, so I cannot select more properly by an I-bar cursor or zoom-in, I think.

Ah, right, I gotcha. Yes, selecting the note and then having the bar stay selected would be a neat feature (at least as a mode to toggle into - most of the time I want to be able to click the bar to select it).

But it's possible already!.Just select the note and the bar stays selected and ready to be moved up or down...

[Reincke]

But it's possible already!.Just select the note and the bar stays selected and ready to be moved up or down...

Sh.....
Thanks a lot. I swear to high heaven yesterday it didn't work with version 4.4.2! Right now with 4.4.6 and a fresh session it works as you told. That needs further research.
JR

[liquidsound]

That needs further research.
JR

Mine was 4.3.1 32bit

[Reincke]

Okay, it seems the "bug" was (again) 50 cm in front of the display.
I reproduced the effect yesterday with 4.4.6., and zooming deeply down to midi clock level showed the notes slightly out of alignment. After aligning the notes everything works fine and as expected. Thanks a lot.

Relating the second question: Is the bar mode made exclusively for "velocity"? I would appreciate a toggle switch (bar/curve mode) for some (or simply all?) other values besides velocity.
JR

[AndreasD]

About bar/curve:

Velocity is displayed in bars, because the (velocity) value is related to the (infinetely short) Note On.
And you can edit a single velocity bar, as mentioned, by select the relevant note and drag it's velocity bar up/down. This works even with multiple notes starting at the same time.
If your notes are not quantized, a click on the note would quantize it. To avoid it, lasso the note to select it.

"Curves" relate to continuous messages. A modwheel value has to stay at this value until it changes. If you have such a value set to 50 at bar 2 and change it to 100 at bar 10, you still want the value 50 applied when you set the transport to bar 3. That is why Midi CCs or parameter automation when set, are displayed as to run till infinity or until the next set value.

[Reincke]

Thank you for your explanation. I understand that for a lot of controllers or parameters curves are more useful, but in some situations it would make sense to automate it by bars.

My question is, if velocity is the only one (!) value that will be automated in "bar mode" or if there are more values?

And I suggest feature request of the ability to switch the mode from bar to curve, except for velocity. Sometimes I had to draw curves where singular steps would be sufficient, and a bar can be dragged much faster than a curve (or editing in the event in list editor).
JR

[DHR53]

I find that sometime I can't select the velocity bar (to adjust) when 2 or more notes are at the same location... it seems to have gotten better with the last few versions, but for awhile there it was very frustrating.

Also, on the Mac version when I go to save a session, I get this long cryptic session name that is not highlighted to overwrite the name I want to call the session. I have to highlight it, and quite often it won't highlight, or I can't drag select the name to type a new name? Not sure why it does that... I expect to have a blank field ready to accept input, not an internal name/that's not active for typing.

Hasn't crashed lately though, and seems to be pretty stable for the most part with this latest version.

[Reincke]

I find that sometime I can't select the velocity bar (to adjust) when 2 or more notes are at the same location... it seems to have gotten better with the last few versions, but for awhile there it was very frustrating.

Please check inside the list editor if the notes are really at the same location. If they are, then a marked note can reliably be dragged. I often had the same effect, and as previously described in this post it was caused by a very slight misalign of the related notes.
JR

[DHR53]

Hmm... I usually have quantize turned on so wouldn't that be a non-issue?

[Reincke]

If you are quite sure that the related notes are exactly at the same position and a marked note cannot reliably be dragged, please reply and explain what you were doing. I think that would be an effect that Jo might be interested in.
JR