MuTools

voidpipe · Post by **voidpipe** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:10 pm

I have been trying to find some kind of official list of the plans for version 5 without any success. There seems to be some indications here and there like "it's on the wish list" or something like that. I guess the reason is that it might not be decided yet or it is regarded company secrets or something like that.

Personally I have decided to leave Ableton Live and use a DAW that is more streamlined to the way i work as I constantly get frustrated with a few aspects of Live. I have now tried a few of the "new" DAW:s that there is buzz about like Mulab, Reaper and Studio One. None of them were an alternative when I switched the last time from Acid to Live as I switched from Pc to Mac. It has been really fascinating to try them all out and make some tunes on them and compare the results.

To sum it up… I really like the clean interface and the way Mulab works and I would really go on and use it as my single DAW. But there is a few things I miss and that I hope for in the next version but I am not sure if I am naive or if that is a very realistic expectations. I was a little bit involved with the Tracktion development until Mackie bought it and I am very much hoping that the developer of Mulab is listening in the same way.

Please give me your comments on these issues, how you value them and how likely they are to be implemented in version 5.

1. Time stretch. I can drag a loop to fit in a number of bars. If I change the tempo of the song all tracks will adjust
2. Groove detection, so I can copy a groove from an audio track for example to other audio or midi tracks
3. Multiple takes with automatic punch in/out
4. Freeze (bounce a midi track with all vst:s down to a simple audio track)
5. Support for multicore processors

One minor request is that I think the workflow can improve when it comes to record multiple tracks at the same time. I do often record my Godin XTSA midi guitar. Then there will be a stereo track with the guitar sound, a midi track with the midi output from the guitar and a stereo audio track with the sound with the midi sent to one of my physical synts creates. I think the Session Mux is great but a bit confusing for a new comer and would like to be able to do it the more normal way. That is to right click i the left track field and add a track (select audio or midi) and then select the input channel. I think that would make it so much easier for people coming over from other mor traditional DAW. Even if I have done it a couple of times the current way I tend to forget it again and have to scratch my head to get it right.

Last question… when is it likely that version 5 will be out based on the previous versions.

Thanks for your patience with my english, regards!

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:13 pm

Thanks for your interesting feedback. I'm currently working on the initial design of MuLab 5 and MUX 2. This means i'm evaluating the whole wishlist, making relations between things and making a selection for implementation.
It's too early to make this draft design public or to answer questions about this or that feature request or to make an estimation about release.

voidpipe · Post by **voidpipe** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:18 pm

Thank you for your reply! It is wonderful that you personally participate in this...

I would however also like to know what other users thinks about my experiences and the points I have selected as most important for me. Am I the only one that thinks these are the most important things?

Regards!

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:20 pm

voidpipe wrote:I would however also like to know what other users thinks about my experiences and the points I have selcet as most important for me.

Yes, i'm curious about that too.

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:53 pm

voidpipe wrote:1. Time stretch. I can drag a loop to fit in a number of bars. If I change the tempo of the song all tracks will adjust

For MIDI, this should "just work"... Audio, I'd rate only as "nice to have" for me.

voidpipe wrote:2. Groove detection, so I can copy a groove from an audio track for example to other audio or midi tracks

No more than nice to have at best here.

voidpipe wrote:3. Multiple takes with automatic punch in/out

Very useful... if it was there, I'd probably use it but it's not stopping me do anything (not a feature I've been used to).

voidpipe wrote:4. Freeze (bounce a midi track with all vst:s down to a simple audio track)

I don't actually like working this way at all!

So not on my list.

voidpipe wrote:5. Support for multicore processors

Essential

voidpipe wrote:One minor request is that I think the workflow can improve when it comes to record multiple tracks at the same time. I do often record my Godin XTSA midi guitar. Then there will be a stereo track with the guitar sound, a midi track with the midi output from the guitar and a stereo audio track with the sound with the midi sent to one of my physical synts creates. I think the Session Mux is great but a bit confusing for a new comer and would like to be able to do it the more normal way. That is to right click i the left track field and add a track (select audio or midi) and then select the input channel. I think that would make it so much easier for people coming over from other mor traditional DAW. Even if I have done it a couple of times the current way I tend to forget it again and have to scratch my head to get it right.

I know last time this was debated, multi-track recording was not seen as an "entry-level" feature (if I remember correctly), so making it simple wasn't prioritised. I don't remember what I said at the time... today I feel it should be simple to plug in and record all the inputs on your sound card without messing about. Recording is uncomfortable for anything but the simple set up, in my view, so this area would benefit from some enhancement overall. (Not a priority for me, though - I only do simple MIDI recording.)

voidpipe wrote:Last question… when is it likely that version 5 will be out based on the previous versions.

When it's been through the usual alpha, beta, pre-release cycle that goes on here. It's during these stages you'll want to really spend time with the tool so you can help work out what's good and what's bad and provide your input. It's this interactive approach to progress that Jo has that's got MuLab where it is today. Whilst Jo leads, he listens.

sl23 · Post by **sl23** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:14 pm

No's 4 + 5 are the ones I'd like to see

jazzdoktorn · Post by **jazzdoktorn** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:06 am

[quote="sl23"]No's 4 + 5 are the ones I'd like to see[/quote]

These two would great.
The freeze is the most important for me.

Regarding the stretch and stuff, well lets put it this way, i think it would be nice things to have in mulab regardings to sale, but it is not of any interest of mine.

Nickl · Post by **Nickl** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:32 am

Not sure how much use, if any, items 1 - 4 would be to me, but 5 is a must for me.

DHR53 · Post by **DHR53** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:59 am

I am always conflicted when I see a large list of requests for MuLab. On one hand it's the simplicity of MuLab that I really like about it. Most of the features I use a lot without a bazillion drop-down menus of stuff I never use. But I do have to qualify that statement with the fact that I don't record much audio, mainly sticking with VIs and the midi side of things. I originally wanted a small footprint DAW to complement Logic, but realized MuLab could do pretty much everything I do anyway so why did I need Logic?

Logic has a lot of little touches that I appreciate being a Mac user for 20 years or so... scrolling works in the instruments from the keyboard, capture last take, which basically records in a buffer while your playing, which can then be turned into a clip with a keyboard command... and time-stretch of audio clips with a command key. I don't use loops that much but that is useful on the rare occasion I load audio loops for a composition. Freeze is something I've had to use very little in Logic because it's so efficient. I routinely had 15-20 tracks going without freezing anything. But MuLab's export track to audio (in markers) works really well, and I've discovered I can save a section of midi to audio quickly and delete the instrument pretty quickly for cpu heavy instruments.

So, I'd like a few things fixed for the Mac side of things, but I can do a lot with MuLab the way it is... and that's not even scratching the surface of what can be built inside of MuLab. I'm not a programmer type but it's pretty cool that you can build instruments and FX insdie of the program itself! Nice...

lingyai · Post by **lingyai** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:52 pm

voidpipe wrote:
1. Time stretch. I can drag a loop to fit in a number of bars. If I change the tempo of the song all tracks will adjust...
4. Freeze (bounce a midi track with all vst:s down to a simple audio track)

Re 1: I assume that the midi does adjust, and it is only the audio which doesn't -- is this correct?

Re 4: Maybe I am misunderstanding -- can one not render midi-playing VSTi output as audio in MuLab???

voidpipe · Post by **voidpipe** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:13 pm

1. Yes you are right. But if you are recording real instruments like I am or work with loops like many other are, time stretch and grooves are essential... not just a luxury.
4. Sure... but it would be more convenient with just a button called freeze or something like that. I mean simplicity can never be wrong... can it?

If Mulab should be something more than tool for those already enlightened... it should be able to do the things people want... but in a more simple and straight forward way than the other DAW:s... Don't do the sam mistake like Tracktion did... from being such a great promising DAW it totally lost focus of simplicity and easy for the users.

There is so much promise already! I would love all this to happend and it would bring a fortune to the developer... ;o)

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:51 pm

Just to agree with the essence of what DHR53 and voidpipe both say: it's got to be kept simple to use and that's probably what I'd put as my top "request".

Features just to have them there aren't what make MuLab special for me. I'm not against the features not on my short list, they're just not there

. If they can be added without making things more complicated, that's fine. But there are complicated things (like multi-input recording) that could do with addressing, too. If there's a balance to be found between spending precious time on new features or simplifications in workflow, I'd encourage the latter as probably providing greater value.

Two things, however, I would raise above everything. Multi-core and getting OSX support for MuLab and MuX onto the same footing as Windows (which I say as a Windows user). Both of these have a marketing importance all above others, in my opinion.

DHR53 · Post by **DHR53** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:20 pm

Was wondering about the scrolling in plugins also... In Logic, I can scroll with the mousewheel or the keyboard up and down arrows in most plugins. In MuLab none of the browsers in plugins are accessable from the mousewheel or keyboard? Really slow and tiresome. A small thing for some but as a Mac user it's noticeable... Seems like Jo said it was a Mac thing or plugin dependent.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:51 pm

DHR53 wrote:Was wondering about the scrolling in plugins also... In Logic, I can scroll with the mousewheel or the keyboard up and down arrows in most plugins. In MuLab none of the browsers in plugins are accessable from the mousewheel or keyboard?

Which plugin for example?
(preferrably a plug that is easily available as demo)

A small thing for some but as a Mac user it's noticeable... Seems like Jo said it was a Mac thing or plugin dependent.

Did i?

DHR53 · Post by **DHR53** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:42 am

Well Zebra scrolls from the keyboard and is selectable (return key) in Logic... Alchemy also. Arturia Analog Factory are a few that come to mind. And have large libraries that require a lot of scrolling to look through the many presets. In Mulab I can't get the mouse wheel to scroll these let alone the keyboard... When I asked about this before, you said it was not a MuLab issue. It's rather important with plugins that have huge libraries...

MuTools

KVR Audio

Personal thoughts after trying Mulab for some weeks....