Ableton Live 9 announced

[pdxindy]

You can't blame them for that though. They occupy a niche in the market and are concentrating on developing the parts of their product that make up that unique niche. There are plenty of products that already accommodate people wishing to work in a more traditional DAW environment. Live, I feel, has always been an alternative working environment not an additional one.

Yes I can, and I do. As a consumer and Live end-user I have all right to give my feedback and to affect to what kind of product I get.
Of course then it's the company which draws the conclusion and makes the decisions. What is essential, is that the end-user, e.g. musicians who is now choosing a DAW, knows what kind of product he/she is buying, what are the alternatives, and if the product suits to his/her purposes. If the Live want's to be first of all a "dj playmate" and not develope the arrange features, then it is a "dj playmate" and not a serious music producer DAW. I think the Live could be innovative tool, which integrates the sample management and traditional linear music making, but then the Ableton should put the development efforts 50-50 (or rather 20-80 to the arrange), now the ratio seems to be 95-5 for the djs'.

I know what the (present) Live is, as said, like very much many of it's feature, and liked to see it developing a much better tool for musicians and producers. H.

Live is already a serious music producer daw...

[loachm]

the point is that "dj playmate" is a rather pejorative attribute. and it's not accurate. Live as a composition tool is much too comprehensive to be called a toy. It's true that it, for instance, doesn't feature traditional notation, but it's not essential to the group of musicians Ableton is targeting. But music is just music and notation is just one mean of its translation. And I think, Live 9 has not a single new feature for DJs and that new push controller doesn't even have a crossfader. So Producers and Performers/Musicians (with that new controller) are the ones that mainly benefit from the new update.

[Harry_HH]

You can't blame them for that though. They occupy a niche in the market and are concentrating on developing the parts of their product that make up that unique niche. There are plenty of products that already accommodate people wishing to work in a more traditional DAW environment. Live, I feel, has always been an alternative working environment not an additional one.

Yes I can, and I do. As a consumer and Live end-user I have all right to give my feedback and to affect to what kind of product I get.
Of course then it's the company which draws the conclusion and makes the decisions. What is essential, is that the end-user, e.g. musicians who is now choosing a DAW, knows what kind of product he/she is buying, what are the alternatives, and if the product suits to his/her purposes. If the Live want's to be first of all a "dj playmate" and not develope the arrange features, then it is a "dj playmate" and not a serious music producer DAW. I think the Live could be innovative tool, which integrates the sample management and traditional linear music making, but then the Ableton should put the development efforts 50-50 (or rather 20-80 to the arrange), now the ratio seems to be 95-5 for the djs'.

I know what the (present) Live is, as said, like very much many of it's feature, and liked to see it developing a much better tool for musicians and producers. H.

Live is already a serious music producer daw...

I need a more serious/better tool - but what is the core point in my comment is that the direction Ableton is taking with the Live 9 is wrong. H.

[sl1914]

And maybe now that the most requested improvements to Session view have been done, they will take a look at Arrangement view next?

[Harry_HH]

the point is that "dj playmate" is a rather pejorative attribute. and it's not accurate. Live as a composition tool is much too comprehensive to be called a toy. It's true that it, for instance, doesn't feature traditional notation, but it's not essential to the group of musicians Ableton is targeting. But music is just music and notation is just one mean of its translation. And I think, Live 9 has not a single new feature for DJs and that new push controller doesn't even have a crossfader. So Producers and Performers/Musicians (with that new controller) are the ones that mainly benefit from the new update.

Well, you can call it pejorative if you want - I guesss most of the djs' wont see their occupation pejorative. And the direction Albeton has strenghten with the Live 9 (as announced) is towards serving more this group of users ("dj") than those who make music in studios in "traditional way" and who want to mix sample management with a sophisticated linear music creating. The direction is wrong (from the point of view hereinafter). H.

[Harry_HH]

And maybe now that the most requested improvements to Session view have been done, they will take a look at Arrangement view next?

Maybe - and we need to wait an other 4 years for this "maybe"...H.

[aMUSEd]

the point is that "dj playmate" is a rather pejorative attribute. and it's not accurate. Live as a composition tool is much too comprehensive to be called a toy. It's true that it, for instance, doesn't feature traditional notation, but it's not essential to the group of musicians Ableton is targeting. But music is just music and notation is just one mean of its translation. And I think, Live 9 has not a single new feature for DJs and that new push controller doesn't even have a crossfader. So Producers and Performers/Musicians (with that new controller) are the ones that mainly benefit from the new update.

Well, you can call it pejorative if you want - I guesss most of the djs' wont see their occupation pejorative. And the direction Albeton has strenghten with the Live 9 (as announced) is towards serving more this group of users ("dj") than those who make music in studios in "traditional way" and who want to mix sample management with a sophisticated linear music creating. The direction is wrong (from the point of view hereinafter). H.

I don't see it like that. The new changes, particularly the automation in session view and the inclusion of M4L, are very welcome to me and I definitely fall into the latter camp. For me it finally opens up the possibility of using software instruments and effects in a more sophisticated non linear way, whereas before the session view was previously of more use to sample based composition.

[Shabdahbriah]

the point is that "dj playmate" is a rather pejorative attribute. and it's not accurate. Live as a composition tool is much too comprehensive to be called a toy. It's true that it, for instance, doesn't feature traditional notation, but it's not essential to the group of musicians Ableton is targeting. But music is just music and notation is just one mean of its translation. And I think, Live 9 has not a single new feature for DJs and that new push controller doesn't even have a crossfader. So Producers and Performers/Musicians (with that new controller) are the ones that mainly benefit from the new update.

Well, you can call it pejorative if you want - I guesss most of the djs' wont see their occupation pejorative. And the direction Albeton has strenghten with the Live 9 (as announced) is towards serving more this group of users ("dj") than those who make music in studios in "traditional way" and who want to mix sample management with a sophisticated linear music creating. The direction is wrong (from the point of view hereinafter). H.

I don't see it like that. The new changes, particularly the automation in session view and the inclusion of M4L, are very welcome to me and I definitely fall into the latter camp. For me it finally opens up the possibility of using software instruments and effects in a more sophisticated non linear way, whereas before the session view was previously of more use to sample based composition.

+1

Though I do what could loosely be called "sample based composition", I agree that the 'changes' are enhancements to many and varying 'work-flows', and definitely welcomed.

As to Live being dj-centric, THAT was its first (IIRC) audience/appeal, from the standpoint of "re-mixing" at least.

[kx.001]

Full feature list:
https://www.ableton.com/en/live/feature-comparison/

Looks great! I need to sit down and drink some water.
209€/329€ is a fair price for students by the way, wow.

Trudat - I'm waiting to find out whether I can upgrade from normal to suite edu discount...

[VariKusBrainZ]

With zplanes audio to midi, proper automation recording and the other goodies thisll be a no brainer

[Harry_HH]

the point is that "dj playmate" is a rather pejorative attribute. and it's not accurate. Live as a composition tool is much too comprehensive to be called a toy. It's true that it, for instance, doesn't feature traditional notation, but it's not essential to the group of musicians Ableton is targeting. But music is just music and notation is just one mean of its translation. And I think, Live 9 has not a single new feature for DJs and that new push controller doesn't even have a crossfader. So Producers and Performers/Musicians (with that new controller) are the ones that mainly benefit from the new update.

Well, you can call it pejorative if you want - I guesss most of the djs' wont see their occupation pejorative. And the direction Albeton has strenghten with the Live 9 (as announced) is towards serving more this group of users ("dj") than those who make music in studios in "traditional way" and who want to mix sample management with a sophisticated linear music creating. The direction is wrong (from the point of view hereinafter). H.

I don't see it like that. The new changes, particularly the automation in session view and the inclusion of M4L, are very welcome to me and I definitely fall into the latter camp. For me it finally opens up the possibility of using software instruments and effects in a more sophisticated non linear way, whereas before the session view was previously of more use to sample based composition.

+1

Though I do what could loosely be called "sample based composition", I .

Yes, in this case the Live 9 is just right tool for you. My approach/main focus is different. See my previous comments in this thread. H.

[headquest]

And the direction Albeton has strenghten with the Live 9 (as announced) is towards serving more this group of users ("dj") than those who make music in studios in "traditional way" and who want to mix sample management with a sophisticated linear music creating. The direction is wrong (from the point of view hereinafter). H.

Well I'm speaking as a professional classical pianist, teacher and composer... and I've been using Ableton Live as my main music composing/recording DAW since version 5.0 (in spite of also owning licenses to Sonar, Cubase and Reason). As somebody who makes music in a fairly traditional way, I quite disagree with you.

For me (and each of looking at the upgrade spec will see different things that do and don't appeal) the biggest news of all is the inclusion of the Orchestral Woodwind/Strings/Brass/Percussion Live Packs, which have until now retailed at a combined price of more than 400euros. We're talking one of the best orchestral sample libraries on the market, all carefully mapped out to seemlessly work in Live.

Other top features, from my rather traditional viewpoint, include the audio to MIDI which looks like a great time saver. Best of all if I can record piano improvisations and convert them to MIDI. How cool is that going to be?

From my traditional point of view I'm also really excited about the improved EQ8, compressor, gate and Glue Compressor. I had been saving to get the Fabfilter ones, but may now no longer need to buy more stuff, so a great cost saving for me there, and better more professional results beckon! Thank you Ableton!

And I'm also really very pleased to see improvements to MIDI Editing - the transpose feature in particular is something that will save me a bunch of editing time.

I'm not sure whether a typical "DJ" is going to share my enthusiasm for those things - would they really be interested in a 400 euro classical orchestral sample set, deeper MIDI editing, mastering-grade studio effects and audio to MIDI conversion? Maybe... maybe not.

Beyond all that, the new Browser is also going to be a time saver I think, and will save a lot of hunting about. Max 4 Live integration will bring loads of creative new devices at no extra cost, which is pretty interesting.

I'm guessing there will be a bunch of other improvements once the whole package is in the open, and I'm even interested in "Push" as well - great to see them design a controller that does appear to be aimed at performing musicians, not "Djs" at all.

So basically, from my point of view as a traditional musician, I think you've really missed the point of the new features, and should take a closer look. I think you have completely misinterpreted the direction Ableton are heading.

[Harry_HH]

And the direction Albeton has strenghten with the Live 9 (as announced) is towards serving more this group of users ("dj") than those who make music in studios in "traditional way" and who want to mix sample management with a sophisticated linear music creating. The direction is wrong (from the point of view hereinafter). H.

Well I'm speaking as a professional classical pianist, teacher and composer... and I've been using Ableton Live as my main music composing/recording DAW since version 5.0 (in spite of also owning licenses to Sonar, Cubase and Reason). As somebody who makes music in a fairly traditional way, I quite disagree with you.

For me (and each of looking at the upgrade spec will see different things that do and don't appeal) the biggest news of all is the inclusion of the Orchestral Woodwind/Strings/Brass/Percussion Live Packs, which have until now retailed at a combined price of more than 400euros. We're talking one of the best orchestral sample libraries on the market, all carefully mapped out to seemlessly work in Live.

Other top features, from my rather traditional viewpoint, include the audio to MIDI which looks like a great time saver. Best of all if I can record piano improvisations and convert them to MIDI. How cool is that going to be?

From my traditional point of view I'm also really excited about the improved EQ8, compressor, gate and Glue Compressor. I had been saving to get the Fabfilter ones, but may now no longer need to buy more stuff, so a great cost saving for me there, and better more professional results beckon! Thank you Ableton!

And I'm also really very pleased to see improvements to MIDI Editing - the transpose feature in particular is something that will save me a bunch of editing time.

I'm not sure whether a typical "DJ" is going to share my enthusiasm for those things - would they really be interested in a 400 euro classical orchestral sample set, deeper MIDI editing, mastering-grade studio effects and audio to MIDI conversion? Maybe... maybe not.

Beyond all that, the new Browser is also going to be a time saver I think, and will save a lot of hunting about. Max 4 Live integration will bring loads of creative new devices at no extra cost, which is pretty interesting.

I'm guessing there will be a bunch of other improvements once the whole package is in the open, and I'm even interested in "Push" as well - great to see them design a controller that does appear to be aimed at performing musicians, not "Djs" at all.

So basically, from my point of view as a traditional musician, I think you've really missed the point of the new features, and should take a closer look. I think you have completely misinterpreted the direction Ableton are heading.

Maybe I've "missed the point of the new feature". I've read all the information give in the Ableton site, but if there are more hidden new improvements/features coming, that I can't know. But according to published
information, the direction of the Live 9 is even more towards sample based music producing and live performance than the present version. I.e., the direction of the development of the Live 9 is wrong, from my point of view (musician & producer since 1994), see my previous comments in this thread. H.

[headquest]

But according to published
information, the direction of the Live 9 is even more towards sample based music producing and live performance than the present version. I.e., the direction of the development of the Live 9 is wrong, from my point of view (musician & producer since 1994), see my previous comments in this thread. H.

I was actually responding to your comment that it is aimed at the "DJ" users - I can't personally see anything at all in this upgrade that is aimed at those users. Nor Push, which doesn't even include a cross-fader!

As for aimed at "sample based music production" (which is pretty much all the music production in the professional world these days anyway!) and "live performance" (in other words, musicians) ... I'm not really sure why that would be wrong, or a complaint. Performance and Production (including composing by implication) covers most of what we all do, surely? And whether we do those things on stage, in a studio, or both is irrelevant - the features are great either way

[original flipper]

Hi

All I ever wanted from Live was to be able to open a FULL SCREEN piano roll - I don't mean full screen with the editing tools/menus taking up 25% of the laft hand side - I just wanted a full screen unadulteated by clutter piano roll!

I have not kept up with Live for a couple of upgrades so, can anyone tell me if this is possible (either currently or in the latest version)?

I might just upgrade!