Anyway its on my wish list! I have gone over to the linux platform 100%!
Regards PA
Linux!
-
- KVRer
- 8 posts since 28 Oct, 2012
Hi! I guess that this question have been asked before, but I wonder if there will be a mulab native for linux?
Anyway its on my wish list! I have gone over to the linux platform 100%!
Regards PA
Anyway its on my wish list! I have gone over to the linux platform 100%!
Regards PA
-
- KVRAF
- 13862 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Yes, i'm interested in Linux. But i'm afraid it's only used by a minority of musicians, i guess for these two reasons:
1) Not all audio devices are fully supported. Only some audio devices are (partially ) supported.
2) Installing and arranging Linux is a rather techie task, not suited for the average musician.
Point 1 is essential! Point 2 may be bypassible by making a tuned distro, if necessary.
It's a pity that Linux, after all these years, still is an 'underground' OS. I would love to see a 3rd mainstream OS that is open source and would apply to desktops, laptops, mobiles, and has full support for keyboard, mouse, touchscreen, etc...
Please correct me if i'm wrong somewhere. I'm not a Linux expert (yet).
1) Not all audio devices are fully supported. Only some audio devices are (partially ) supported.
2) Installing and arranging Linux is a rather techie task, not suited for the average musician.
Point 1 is essential! Point 2 may be bypassible by making a tuned distro, if necessary.
It's a pity that Linux, after all these years, still is an 'underground' OS. I would love to see a 3rd mainstream OS that is open source and would apply to desktops, laptops, mobiles, and has full support for keyboard, mouse, touchscreen, etc...
Please correct me if i'm wrong somewhere. I'm not a Linux expert (yet).
-
- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
See this thread for the on-going debate about Linux as a musician's OS.
Both #1 and #2 can be solved by "closed box" solutions (e.g. Receptor and others) but that's not a platform for a DAW to target but would give a (tiny) target for a plugin.
Neither #1 or #2 have been solved by "open box" solutions reliably, leaving the position as you mention above.
However, all is not lost. Audio applications don't have to care about #1 or #2: they can write using standard tool kits that are available not only on Linux but also on Windows and OSX, meaning that writing for Linux can be beneficial in simplifying application development. (Use JACK for audio, any of several windowing toolkits (or port your existing one) and the Steinburg VST code compiles OK.) Effectively, having a Linux version becomes a side-effect of your development approach (I think you could even cross-compile to Windows and OSX).
Both #1 and #2 can be solved by "closed box" solutions (e.g. Receptor and others) but that's not a platform for a DAW to target but would give a (tiny) target for a plugin.
Neither #1 or #2 have been solved by "open box" solutions reliably, leaving the position as you mention above.
However, all is not lost. Audio applications don't have to care about #1 or #2: they can write using standard tool kits that are available not only on Linux but also on Windows and OSX, meaning that writing for Linux can be beneficial in simplifying application development. (Use JACK for audio, any of several windowing toolkits (or port your existing one) and the Steinburg VST code compiles OK.) Effectively, having a Linux version becomes a side-effect of your development approach (I think you could even cross-compile to Windows and OSX).
-
- KVRAF
- 2973 posts since 10 Sep, 2003 from Karlskoga, Stockholm, Sweden
Is there any performance benefit of using Linux?
-
- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
I've seen people claim lower latency is possible. At application level, it's hard to say as there is so little music software available on Linux that's available on other platforms with the same degree of support and no commercial software I'm aware of has moved from Linux to another platform. The only music software I know of that has a Linux-version is Energy XT and I've never had much interest in it, so I don't know how well the platforms compared (support, features, performance, etc).
(Reaper is tested under wine from time to time and has run reliably. But comparing performance between Windows and a Windows-toolkit emulation running on X (i.e. a layer of indirection) isn't a good test of performance.)
(Reaper is tested under wine from time to time and has run reliably. But comparing performance between Windows and a Windows-toolkit emulation running on X (i.e. a layer of indirection) isn't a good test of performance.)
Last edited by pljones on Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 8 posts since 28 Oct, 2012
Yes you are right about the prof. audio cards, but it supports most general audio cards! I think it supports RME Hammerfall, Maudio delta, ESI juli, Edirol UA-25 and some others.mutools wrote:Yes, i'm interested in Linux. But i'm afraid it's only used by a minority of musicians, i guess for these two reasons:
1) Not all audio devices are fully supported. Only some audio devices are (partially ) supported.
2) Installing and arranging Linux is a rather techie task, not suited for the average musician.
Point 1 is essential! Point 2 may be bypassible by making a tuned distro, if necessary.
It's a pity that Linux, after all these years, still is an 'underground' OS. I would love to see a 3rd mainstream OS that is open source and would apply to desktops, laptops, mobiles, and has full support for keyboard, mouse, touchscreen, etc...
Please correct me if i'm wrong somewhere. I'm not a Linux expert (yet).
When it comes to techie, I dont agree! There are some great audio distros like ubuntu studio, kxstudio, avlinux, dream linux and so on that are pretty easy to manage, nob like!)
You could build a tuned mulab studio distro (MuStudio Linux) pretty easy using ubuntu or dabian as base for a live dvd or install! Linux is growing fast and in my mind not just a underground platform like the bsd based distros! I use ubuntu 12.04 LTS for everything! I run Mixbus, Ardour and renoise without any problem! When it comes to keys and mouse no problem, most are supported! Touth I dont know, dont have any use for it! Laptops and mobile, no problem either as long as they have the specs! I have run ubuntu 12.04 on netbooks without problem!
PA
-
- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
The company I work for supply us with Ubuntu laptops. Mine died today. 12.04 doesn't support the built in video card. Known problem. Unknown solution. I persuaded the IT tech to let me have an old laptop so I could get some work done. No, Linux isn't diddly easy for everyone, I'm afraid. Things go wrong and you need to be a techy to fix them. Thinking otherwise is self-delusion.
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 8 posts since 28 Oct, 2012
Well shit happens!) I have used windows since win 95, and let me tell you that shit happens big time in the windows world as well! The best experience I have had is with mac and Linux! In linux things can be fixed, and are on a regular basis! And the community is very helpful! And its open source!)
-
- KVRian
- 538 posts since 23 Jan, 2008 from Hamburg, Germany
I know what you mean. When I updated my XP machine to Win7/x64 almost 50% of my external hardware stopped to work (Canon-scanner, HP-printer, Microsoft-gamepad etc.). They still work 100% OOTB under Linux several years after.pljones wrote:The company I work for supply us with Ubuntu laptops. Mine died today. 12.04 doesn't support the built in video card. Known problem. Unknown solution. I persuaded the IT tech to let me have an old laptop so I could get some work done. No, Linux isn't diddly easy for everyone, I'm afraid. Things go wrong and you need to be a techy to fix them. Thinking otherwise is self-delusion.
So this is how things work under Windows. Things go wrong and you need to be a techy to fix them or throw perfectly working hardware into the trash can and buy new hardware with new drivers. Thinking otherwise is self-delusion.
-
- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
Yes, but the laptop was configured for Linux specifically, not an upgrade. Getting vendor support on Linux is a nightmare.
The vast majority of people on Windows never hit a problem. They buy a machine pre-configured and use it till they buy a new machine that's pre-configured and it just works. Somewhere in the background, it's installing updates from Microsoft without them even being aware half the time. On Linux, it's never that easy. I've used both a long time (Linux since 0.99.7 Tom's Root/Boot disk distro; Windows since 3.0). Microsoft are in business to make their customers' lives easy (their customers really being the pre-built machine suppliers like Dell - they're less interested in self-builders). A hardware supplier who doesn't support their (latest, admittedly) hardware on Windows is basically cutting themselves out of the market and won't survive, so there will always be a driver (for new hardware). On Linux, there's too little demand for this to be the case. It's not a vendor's priority. Eventually you might see a vendor driver. There's even less priority if open source drivers exist. It's why the hardware for Linux, particularly for audio, tends to be listed as specifically supported or not. This doesn't happen for Windows as the default is "yes, it's supported". The opposite is true on Linux.
However, as I say, that's not relevant to an application developer. The hardware is abstracted (on all platforms) by the OS. The benefit of the Linux abstraction layer is that it's been ported to both of the mainstream operating systems, meaning there are benefits gained through targeting that platform rather than having to maintain two separate targets.
The vast majority of people on Windows never hit a problem. They buy a machine pre-configured and use it till they buy a new machine that's pre-configured and it just works. Somewhere in the background, it's installing updates from Microsoft without them even being aware half the time. On Linux, it's never that easy. I've used both a long time (Linux since 0.99.7 Tom's Root/Boot disk distro; Windows since 3.0). Microsoft are in business to make their customers' lives easy (their customers really being the pre-built machine suppliers like Dell - they're less interested in self-builders). A hardware supplier who doesn't support their (latest, admittedly) hardware on Windows is basically cutting themselves out of the market and won't survive, so there will always be a driver (for new hardware). On Linux, there's too little demand for this to be the case. It's not a vendor's priority. Eventually you might see a vendor driver. There's even less priority if open source drivers exist. It's why the hardware for Linux, particularly for audio, tends to be listed as specifically supported or not. This doesn't happen for Windows as the default is "yes, it's supported". The opposite is true on Linux.
However, as I say, that's not relevant to an application developer. The hardware is abstracted (on all platforms) by the OS. The benefit of the Linux abstraction layer is that it's been ported to both of the mainstream operating systems, meaning there are benefits gained through targeting that platform rather than having to maintain two separate targets.
-
- KVRAF
- 2973 posts since 10 Sep, 2003 from Karlskoga, Stockholm, Sweden
I wouldn't mind using and learning Linux at all but it better be worth having dual bootdrives ... so it better be worth a lot!
-
- KVRian
- 538 posts since 23 Jan, 2008 from Hamburg, Germany
Well, all these hardware pieces were supposed to work with Windows but they refused to do so when I upgraded to a more current version. And vendor support was absolutely non existent too, despite the shiny Windows-Logo on the housing of the device. So what is the difference? They still work perfectly under every modern Linux system so how does that speak for the Windows ecosystem?pljones wrote:Yes, but the laptop was configured for Linux specifically, not an upgrade. Getting vendor support on Linux is a nightmare.
Same with preconfigured devices. It is exactly the same situation on Linux, Windows and OSX. As long as the machine it's still current you'll get a perfectly working system OOTB with automated updates etc on all three systems. If you want to work outside the box then you'll have to get your hands dirty on all three systems and even under OSX this means that you will most likely have to work entirely on the console.
If you upgrade your OS then the chance that the hardware will refuse too work is not that different on all three systems too. If this happens because of bad vendor support, a lazy OSS programmer or planned obsolescence doesn't make a difference at the the end of the day as the customer is sitting there with a non functional piece of computer hardware. But on Linux there is at least a chance that someone fixes the non working driver while you are totally screwed on the other two platforms because the vendors usually prefer to sell new stuff instead of fixing old things.
And sorry, the sentence 'windows needs no tweaking and runs trouble free' is a really bad joke. Just look at the local paper shop: There are literally hundreds of monthly computer magazines out there with only one objective: "Tweaking and fixing Windows". All these magazines could never make a dime with this amount of paper if there was no problem to solve in the first place.
Or look at this forum where dozens of concurrent threads are fighting against weird Windows problems, talk about slim down strategies for Windows, optimize driver configurations, hacking registry for proper MIDI support, driver bug hunting with latency checkers etc.
Just because more people know how to tweak Windows than Linux it doesn't mean that the shear amount of tweaking needed is actually less. Au contraire.
Just as example: A modern Ubuntu installer will install a complete DAW system with all needed drivers and a huge collection of software for most daily needs with just a hand full of mouse clicks and the name of the user. Within a few minutes you'll get a perfectly configured and up to date system up and running for recording.
With Windows you'll get 800x600 and a working mouse if you're lucky. After the OS installation you'll have to hunt down all these driver CDs and vendor webspaces for drivers for each and every piece of hardware in your system to find current ones and then install them one by one, followed by a reboot after every single one. Then you'll have to install all your software packages one by one followed by a website visit of the software vendor to activate it and to get current versions and updates (and of course a reboot after every installation). OK, the last step might not be needed every time as most software nowadays will install some kind of update service so you will end up with dozens of useless daemons running permanently in the background instead. If you are at this stage of the installation then the optimization stage begins with service disabling, autostart cleanup, latency checking etc...
But hey, this is not tweaking, what do I know anyway.
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 8 posts since 28 Oct, 2012
Couldent agree more!)Not so long ago I had a bad experience with my newly acquired Focusrite Liquid mix dsp! I never got that thing working properly! In windows 7 64bit i hade to use a dummy driver, because the vendor never got there driver working 100% in windows! I waited for yers for a properly working driver, but it never came, and now the product is not supported or sold any more! So I was forced to get rid of the thing! Its alot of many waisted!
When it comes to linux, you can build a system with hardware that is supported, and it will work for ever, if you dont break any dependency! As you all know, if its not broken dont fix it! I think most of you working with mulab and music are techies in some way, and most of you would probably not fear Linux for music production!
It sound nice dosent it- MuStudio Linux!!)
PA
When it comes to linux, you can build a system with hardware that is supported, and it will work for ever, if you dont break any dependency! As you all know, if its not broken dont fix it! I think most of you working with mulab and music are techies in some way, and most of you would probably not fear Linux for music production!
It sound nice dosent it- MuStudio Linux!!)
PA
-
- KVRAF
- 2973 posts since 10 Sep, 2003 from Karlskoga, Stockholm, Sweden
The reason why manufacturers do not update drivers for new OS's is because you're used to their products and will (likely) buy a new, very similar, product from them. Capitalism must work that way, increased growth or economy fails. That's why all the things you buy break after a ridiculously short time so that you buy new.
Open source is not driven by capitalism so it won't suffer from the same reasons. But it is driven by other reasons and the effect in the end may be very much the same.
Im not for or against capitalism - this was not a post about that..
Open source is not driven by capitalism so it won't suffer from the same reasons. But it is driven by other reasons and the effect in the end may be very much the same.
Im not for or against capitalism - this was not a post about that..
-
- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
Um, no. You cannot have read what I wrote to reply with that.Benutzername wrote:Same with preconfigured devices. It is exactly the same situation on Linux, Windows and OSX. As long as the machine it's still current you'll get a perfectly working system OOTB with automated updates etc on all three systems. If you want to work outside the box then you'll have to get your hands dirty on all three systems and even under OSX this means that you will most likely have to work entirely on the consolepljones wrote:Yes, but the laptop was configured for Linux specifically, not an upgrade. Getting vendor support on Linux is a nightmare.