Polyphonic Guitar to MIDI VST/AU "MIDI Guitar"- BETA TEST

[ariajazz]

I took my first approach to MIDI GUITAR v2 early this morning, played with it for about two hours with a semi hollow body HAMER guitar with flat wound 0.11 set strings on. These are my first impressions:

- Some latency found, not to much noticeable in a playing context but there is some, even in the pitch recognition mode set to 2.

- Spurious notes, many of them, you can reduce them with the sensitivity adjustment but still you get some.

- Lack of pitch bend feature and/or adjustment, not too cool when you want to trigger lead synths.

- Polyphonic note recognition it is a great achievement being not possible before in the software world (only hexaphonic pickups could do it). Still not perfect, It is hard to make several notes to play and sound at the same time, like playing a chord fingerstyle, not arpeggios.

- Note triggering is good but you get those spurious and false notes that are boring.

- There's no dynamic response, all notes are triggered at same velocity, no control or adjustment for this parameter either.


I used two soft synths today: NI FM8 and Cakewalk Z3ta+2 both with similar results. Some patches sound and respond better tha others but still have the issues described above. I want to believe that is a matter of tweaking but I have already done it and don't know where else to tweak. Appreciate some tips on this.

I've read the previous posts with very good impressions about their experiences, mine it is not as good. I've been playing midi guitar systems for 15+ years and it seems that hexaphonic ones like Rolands, Axon, etc. can't be beating yet. As said before polyphonic recognition is a great thing to have in a software but I think that developing a software that can trigger smooth and flawlesly mono notes is the one of the goals.

I will continue testing MIDI GUITAR with some other equipment and soft synths. I will post my impressions.

Ole keep on working you're almost done.

[S1gnsOfL1fe]

how do you make reason recognize the input from midi guitar?

I just got this to work with Reason, however I wasn't able to record any of the notes I was playing...only play through my devices. If you have the standalone version running (I'm on a Mac) Midi Guitar shows up as an input midi bus. From there, you can just direct the midi output to the instrument of your choice (using the "advanced midi" tab all the way at the top of the rack) and selecting channel 1 and assigning the midi input to the instrument in your session. I was even able to add Midi Guitar as a control surface but couldn't make it the "master keyboard."

I've been emailing Ole about my issues getting the AU up and running on Mac...but getting it to work in Reason makes me wonder if doing the same thing might work in my other DAWs like Pro Tools 10. Hmmmmm...

[JamOrigin]

I would expect the MIDI Guitar standalone to behave exactly like any other midi input device, and work with any DAW such as Reason and ProTools. On mac it should be supported though Apples built in virtual midi. On Windows you need to install a virtual midi driver for now (such as loopMidi, midiOx, loopBe1 - all free). We consider including a midi driver with midi guitar for windows.

Are you saying that Reason distinguish between master midi input devices, and virtual devices?

[memyselfandus]

if we can get this to work with something like "scala"... I will never leave the house again.. would be able to load microtonal "tun" files......

http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/scl_format.html

http://www.huygens-fokker.org/docs/scalesdir.txt

[shanecgriffo]

Ariajazz -as has been mentioned and in my experience too, a signal with more treble is the way to go.. A warm jazz sound (hollow body/flatwound strings) is not going to work so well with midi guitar.

[AdmiralQuality]

I still need to pick up my guitars to test this, but on first launching it (the stand-alone .exe), it repeatedly gave me "Impossible to record audio because the Audio Input is not active. Open the ASIO DirectX Full Duplex Setup dialog. Make sure that a device is selected in the Input Ports section and that its check box is activated".

Not sure what it means by "ASIO DirectX Full Duplex Setup dialog". Everything seems to be on the front panel (though that is one of the input and output device options).

It did that a lot, maybe 10 times, before it would accept the Beta license file. (I didn't need to try over, just kept hitting OK and eventually it went away.)

This was the stand-alone running on Windows XP (x86). My audio interface is an Edirol UA-1000 using its native ASIO driver. (My Edirol's ASIO control panel is set to the lowest, 96 samples buffer. It's a 10 x 10 interface, running at 44.1 @ 24).

I get that same error every time I launch it (there's a checkbox to not show me that message again, but I'm leaving it unchecked for now).

Also it doesn't seem to remember my previous choice of Input and Output device, it always defaults back to "ASIO DIRECTX FULL DUPLEX DRIVER" even though in the previous session(s) I set both to "EDIROL UA-1000".

Oh... weird... while writing this I did discover the "ASIO DirectX Full Duplex Setup dialog" and have now checked the UA-1000 for both input and output. (I hit configure before and it brought up my UA-1000's ASIO control panel.)

Also, now it's not letting me choose the EDIROL UA-1000 ASIO driver at all. It tells me... oh wait, now it IS! (Restarted, same thing, falls back to ASIO DIRECTX FULL DUPLEX DRIVER and when I try to change to UA-1000 it tells me "Input Device Error Can not found a device. Please connect the device." I get that once each when I try to select Input and Output (even though the selection appears to stick). Also the Configure button is gone now.

And the Buffer Size field doesn't update from the default 2048 to 96 (except one of the previous times I launched it, it did.)

I've never had any compatibility issues with the UA-1000's ASIO driver (or any of the other Roland/Edirol devices I've used in the past, UA-5 and UA-25). So don't blame the driver.

It DID work for me the first time around. But successive runs have been having this weirdness. (And I assume it's supposed to save the state of the device preference somewhere? Or does it always come up defaulting to ASIO DIRECTX FULL DUPLEX DRIVER? Because that's what's happening here.)

I'm going to try rebooting and try this again...

[ariajazz]

Ariajazz -as has been mentioned and in my experience too, a signal with more treble is the way to go.. A warm jazz sound (hollow body/flatwound strings) is not going to work so well with midi guitar.

This guitar is being used with volume and tone controls at full. There's not that jazzy warmth tone from the pickups which are Seymour Duncan hambuckers. Only the flatwound strings could be the problem. Probably inserting an EQ in the chain (before MIDI GUITAR) could help getting better results. Any tips on this?

I sent tracks recorded with this guitar to JamOrigin team and they were used for tweaking the application. We agreed that it was a good idea since the variety of guitar models and strings available.

What type of setup do you get the best results with?

[AdmiralQuality]

In that case inserting a EQ in the chain (before MIDI GUITAR) could help getting better results.

I doubt that. EQ can't make frequencies that aren't there. (Distortion does though! Worth a shot...)

[ariajazz]

Of course they are there you just have to "push" them a little

[TMaudio]

Of course they are there you just have to "push" them a little

Admiral is saying, if they aren't there EQ will not put them there.

[AdmiralQuality]

Of course they are there you just have to "push" them a little

Admiral is saying, if they aren't there EQ will not put them there.

Exactly. And depending on the guitar or playing style, they're not necessarily there. For example, if you pluck a string at exactly the half way point between the bridge and where it's fretted, there will be NO even numbered harmonics in the tone, only odd. (Because the even harmonics need to have a node right where you plucked. Kind of the opposite of making a harmonic where you place your finger where you want an anti-node, i.e. a spot where none of the harmonics in the string vibrate.)

This is (educated guess) why bridge picking and bridge pickup are producing better results, because there's more of the harmonic series intact to analyze.

So picking (or worse, plucking) by the neck, with flatwound strings, on a jazz guitar that's voiced to sound like it's inside a bucket of water, might not work so well. This process (another educated guess) needs a strong harmonic series to quickly determine the note, it's not just looking for the fundamental. (If it was you'd want the opposite, neck picking, neck pickup, tone down. Though this is actually how a lot of the monophonic pitch trackers want things, I don't think that applies to this process.)

[AdmiralQuality]

I still need to pick up my guitars to test this, but on first launching it (the stand-alone .exe), it repeatedly gave me "Impossible to record audio because the Audio Input is not active. Open the ASIO DirectX Full Duplex Setup dialog. Make sure that a device is selected in the Input Ports section and that its check box is activated".

Not sure what it means by "ASIO DirectX Full Duplex Setup dialog". Everything seems to be on the front panel (though that is one of the input and output device options).

It did that a lot, maybe 10 times, before it would accept the Beta license file. (I didn't need to try over, just kept hitting OK and eventually it went away.)

This was the stand-alone running on Windows XP (x86). My audio interface is an Edirol UA-1000 using its native ASIO driver. (My Edirol's ASIO control panel is set to the lowest, 96 samples buffer. It's a 10 x 10 interface, running at 44.1 @ 24).

I get that same error every time I launch it (there's a checkbox to not show me that message again, but I'm leaving it unchecked for now).

Also it doesn't seem to remember my previous choice of Input and Output device, it always defaults back to "ASIO DIRECTX FULL DUPLEX DRIVER" even though in the previous session(s) I set both to "EDIROL UA-1000".

Oh... weird... while writing this I did discover the "ASIO DirectX Full Duplex Setup dialog" and have now checked the UA-1000 for both input and output. (I hit configure before and it brought up my UA-1000's ASIO control panel.)

Also, now it's not letting me choose the EDIROL UA-1000 ASIO driver at all. It tells me... oh wait, now it IS! (Restarted, same thing, falls back to ASIO DIRECTX FULL DUPLEX DRIVER and when I try to change to UA-1000 it tells me "Input Device Error Can not found a device. Please connect the device." I get that once each when I try to select Input and Output (even though the selection appears to stick). Also the Configure button is gone now.

And the Buffer Size field doesn't update from the default 2048 to 96 (except one of the previous times I launched it, it did.)

I've never had any compatibility issues with the UA-1000's ASIO driver (or any of the other Roland/Edirol devices I've used in the past, UA-5 and UA-25). So don't blame the driver.

It DID work for me the first time around. But successive runs have been having this weirdness. (And I assume it's supposed to save the state of the device preference somewhere? Or does it always come up defaulting to ASIO DIRECTX FULL DUPLEX DRIVER? Because that's what's happening here.)

I'm going to try rebooting and try this again...

Okay, after a reboot I no longer got any warning dialogs, and after selecting EDIROL UA-1000 for input and output devices it DID remember the settings in the next session.

The only (small) issue was it didn't show the buffer size (96 samples) until I restarted it. But the Configure button appeared, and when clicked launched the Edirol ASIO Control Panel, as expected.

Obviously the plug-in version won't have these driver issues. I'll try it out when I get my guitars back, in a couple of days.

Not sure what the issue was but my machine had been up and running for probably a week, using various different DAW software, so maybe some process still had it's hooks into the ASIO driver? Don't know. I'll let you know if it happens again.

[ariajazz]

Only bridge pickup is being used. EQ trick improved things. I'm now into test it with a Fender Strat, regular 0.10 strings. I'll keep you all informed about results

[Sorefingers]

I'm new to the beta testing as of today. Starting out on the latest build.

My setup specs are: Fender Baja Telecaster, using the bridge pickup ( stock custom shop broadcaster single coil)--->cheap Hosa 10' instrument cable--->Focusrite Saffire 24 interface--->MacBook Pro 2010 model with Mountain Lion and 8GB RAM.

I tried it out last night in standalone mode and used Kontakt 5 as my instrument through the midi guitar app. I was missing a note or two until I switched to level 2 pitch detection. After that adjustment, I didn't notice any dropped notes.

I ran through several types of instruments. The ones I had trouble with we're the ones with key switches for various changes on the instrument. For example, the bagpipe has key switches for the type of note, and how you want the drone notes to play. Same thing for the choir instruments where some of the lower notes on a keyboard trigger different vowel sounds, etc. This is more an instrument specific issue than anything to do with MidiGuitar, and I could probably make adjustments or run scripts in Kontakt to compensate.

I tried grand piano, flute, brass ensemble, choirs, drums, strings, acoustic guitar, and several synths in Kontakt. They all worked great for me. I had to adjust the key range in a few Kontakt instruments a little since a keyboard can play a higher note than guitar, but mostly I was good to go.

For the velocity sensitive instruments, MidiGuitar handled these well. For example, the string sections, brass ensembles, and choirs will be quieter if you you press the keys of your midi keyboard lightly, etc. Playing my Telecaster with a lighter touch accomplished the same effect.

The cello instrument I loaded in Kontakt had a great reaction to finger technique on the fretboard. I was able to achieve a very realistic vibrato on my guitar than I ever have with a midi keyboard controller.

The acoustic guitar instruments in Kontakt responded better with my Tele through MidiGuitar than they ever did with a keyboard. I tried a lute, steel string slide, classical nylon, and a pedal steel.

All in all, I'm very pleased. I'll try the plugin versions later this week. I've got a Strat I want to try, and a semi-hollow ES-335 copy with a coil tap push-pull knob.

[shanecgriffo]

Only bridge pickup is being used. EQ trick improved things. I'm now into test it with a Fender Strat, regular 0.10 strings. I'll keep you all informed about results

Strat is what I've been using also a variax- Tele setting bridge pickup, you will hopefully have better results with the strat too