Improving music/keyboard skills... what to do

[robogone]

everyone should be encouraged ... but participating in music doesn't make you a musician anymore than reading an anatomy and physiology book makes you a doctor

I don't know that's an equivalent. Not everyone in music should be called a maestro in the same way that not everyone who has looked at an anatomy book should be called a doctor; but perhaps everyone in music can be called a musician in the same way that anyone who has read an anatomy book can be called "studied in anatomy".

I just don't like this whole denial of musician or music to a person or person's output. It stinks of exclusivity to me. For a start, where do you draw the line? When do you become a musician? There's no mandated exam to pass to become a musician and no standard of where cacophony and melody slide suddenly become 'music'.

When I first picked up a guitar and played 2 alternating notes was I a musician? When I struggled to play Smoke on the Water very badly was I a musician? When I was first able to play barre chords was I a musician? When I could shred at speed was I a musician? Am I a musician yet? How do I tell?

[bobbybland]

Play everyday!!!

[tapper mike]

Three isolated people no. Three people who two of which due to phsyiological conditions would never be musicians. A third who attempted with all of her heart and discovered for herself that being a musician wasn't her thing and so smartly moved on.

Have you ever taught music for a living? Do you personally know what it means to go out on a stage and perform music as a musician on your musical instrument? Do you have any idea what is required to be a paid studio musician playing a real musical instrument at a professional recording studio for a professional service? I do. I have the track record been there done all of that. Do you think they would just let anyone who "says" they can play but can't follow a beat or stay in key or actually follow the sheet is going to respect that?

Do you think this 1 year old has any musical ability?


Oddly I've seen 20 and 30 year old's with less musical inclination. At least he can keep time.

There are things that I can do and things that I can't. Most people are like that. There are things they can do and things that they can't no matter how hard they try or how much they want it. The smart ones are the ones that maximize on what they can do and put what they can't do behind them.

[Bronto Scorpio]

everyone should be encouraged ... but participating in music doesn't make you a musician anymore than reading an anatomy and physiology book makes you a doctor

I don't know that's an equivalent. Not everyone in music should be called a maestro in the same way that not everyone who has looked at an anatomy book should be called a doctor; but perhaps everyone in music can be called a musician in the same way that anyone who has read an anatomy book can be called "studied in anatomy".

I just don't like this whole denial of musician or music to a person or person's output. It stinks of exclusivity to me. For a start, where do you draw the line? When do you become a musician? There's no mandated exam to pass to become a musician and no standard of where cacophony and melody slide suddenly become 'music'.

When I first picked up a guitar and played 2 alternating notes was I a musician? When I struggled to play Smoke on the Water very badly was I a musician? When I was first able to play barre chords was I a musician? When I could shred at speed was I a musician? Am I a musician yet? How do I tell?

+1 *pi

[SJ_Digriz]

When I first picked up a guitar and played 2 alternating notes was I a musician? When I struggled to play Smoke on the Water very badly was I a musician? When I was first able to play barre chords was I a musician? When I could shred at speed was I a musician? Am I a musician yet? How do I tell?

The answer to all the above is NO.

A few indicators that you are possibly a musician. You look at the chords written on a sheet of music and say "hey, that's the same progression of 5ths as Smoke on the Water".

Or, you are playing in a band and someone says, do Smoke in Bflat, but Reggae the chord changes, and you know exactly what to do.

[SJ_Digriz]

and none of the above is a denial for people to approach music anymore than not calling every little kid kicking a soccer ball an athlete denies a child access to sports.

[Sendy]

Here's the rub, not everyone is musically inclined, BUT, this doesn't create a system of elitist "I'm a musician and you're not" because only you can truly know if you yourself has potential. Sure, people can guide you, encourage or discourage you, but whether you act on the advice and what advice you act on is up to you.

I personally CAN hear music in nonmusical phenomenon, but I believe that's because I'm "musically minded"* and seek the music in everything. Whether some random thing is music or not is in the "eye of the beholder". The more musically minded you're thinking at the time, the more likely some non-musician-created sound or phenomenon (children playing with xylophone, traffic going by, talking crowds, random notes spat out by a computer program, etc) can appear musical because a musical mind will seek that which is musical within it and capitalize on that for inspiration.

* Please note this isn't big-headed-ness, throughout my life I've recieved consistent feedback that despite my limited skill at the keyboard, I'm quite musically intuitive - teachers, bandmates, random people. After a while you just accept you're good at somethings and not others. On top of this, I've spent the vast majority of my own time either making music, sound editing, composing, writing fugues, synth programming, or all of the above. It's bound to "muso-fy" my thoughts over time.

[robogone]

Three isolated people no. Three people who two of which due to phsyiological conditions would never be musicians. A third who attempted with all of her heart and discovered for herself that being a musician wasn't her thing and so smartly moved on.

How are these not isolated cases? Had to spoken about a significant percentage of the world population I might give credence to these statements backing up your argument. This is not a statisticially significant sample size by any means, so not quite sure how you don't see this as isolated.

Have you ever taught music for a living? Do you personally know what it means to go out on a stage and perform music as a musician on your musical instrument? Do you have any idea what is required to be a paid studio musician playing a real musical instrument at a professional recording studio for a professional service? I do. I have the track record been there done all of that. Do you think they would just let anyone who "says" they can play but can't follow a beat or stay in key or actually follow the sheet is going to respect that?

Unlikely, but that has nothing to do with whether or not the people who haven't had that experience can be called musicians.

Do you think this 1 year old has any musical ability?

Yes.

At least he can keep time.

Are you now suggesting that percussionists aren't musicians?

There are things that I can do and things that I can't. Most people are like that. There are things they can do and things that they can't no matter how hard they try or how much they want it.

So then if there are no fixed criteria and we are all of varying ability, why not just universally use the word 'musician' for everyone and be done with the confusion?

The smart ones are the ones that maximize on what they can do and put what they can't do behind them.

You sound very bitter

[Bronto Scorpio]

A few indicators that you are possibly a musician. You look at the chords written on a sheet of music and say "hey, that's the same progression of 5ths as Smoke on the Water".

Or, you are playing in a band and someone says, do Smoke in Bflat, but Reggae the chord changes, and you know exactly what to do.

I finally know that I'm not a musician

Here are my random rules:

- If you don't know the relationship between the hamonics in a sawtooth wave you are not a musician.

- If you never wrote a piece of generative music (or the algo behind it) you are not a musician.

- If you don't know the difference between amplitude modulation, ring modulation and frequency modulation you are not a musician

....

By my rules I'm suddenly a musician. These kind of things are far more important for the stuff I do than sheet music will ever be (I can actually read sheet music, but let's just pretend I can't to get the point across ).

Once again +1 to robojams post.

Cheers
Dennis

[robogone]

When I first picked up a guitar and played 2 alternating notes was I a musician? When I struggled to play Smoke on the Water very badly was I a musician? When I was first able to play barre chords was I a musician? When I could shred at speed was I a musician? Am I a musician yet? How do I tell?

The answer to all the above is NO.

A few indicators that you are possibly a musician. You look at the chords written on a sheet of music and say "hey, that's the same progression of 5ths as Smoke on the Water".

Or, you are playing in a band and someone says, do Smoke in Bflat, but Reggae the chord changes, and you know exactly what to do.

^
This is the smell of exclusivity I was talking about earlier.

[SJ_Digriz]

- If you don't know the relationship between the hamonics in a sawtooth wave you are not a musician.

- If you never wrote a piece of generative music (or the algo behind it) you are not a musician.

- If you don't know the difference between amplitude modulation, ring modulation and frequency modulation you are not a musician

....

I would say that knowing these things can lead to being a musician, but having the abilities themselves does not make you a musician.

[SJ_Digriz]

Violinists walks into a recording studio with an orchestra and says "I'm a musician".. there will be some expectations involved.

DJ walks into a dance hall and says "I'm a musician", everyone in the place says "Me Too"

[Tricky-Loops]

IMHO everyone who creates a song or instrumental, is a musician. It doesn't matter if he/she doesn't know the circle of 5th (maybe a drummer?) or can't play guitar or uses only samples. Even if someone uses parts of songs by others (think of Madeon), or just some construction kits, it IS a musician.

I don't like this elitist fuss whether someone is a good or bad musician. Either I like the music or not. And if I don't like it, that doesn't mean that someone isn't a (good) musician. For example, I don't like hardcore-distorted guitars from trash metal - but nevertheless, the players can be good musicians.

[mikemusicked]

I need to read through all of these, because it's great thing to discuss. My colleagues and I have spent decades thinking about this.

Everyone is born with the inherent ability to music, at some level, and enjoy music. Children sing because they want to. They enjoy making sounds on Instruments. It gets scared out of most of us over time, unfortunately.

Is everyone who casually plays Golf on the weekends a Pro Golfer? No
Can anyone go out and enjoy playing Golf for many years? Yes

You can, especially now, with the tools available make good sounding music with little or no knowledge of the musical language. Some "professional" musicians write great songs/pieces without fully understanding all Theory concepts. There's no need for everyone to understand Superlocrian Scales or Polychords.

But, I believe, the more of an understanding you have of the musical language the more options you have open to you in writing and creating music of all styles.

Understanding; Scales, Chords, Chords/Scale relationships, progressions helps you to broaden your palette of options. Understanding what Bass Players, Drummers, Guitarists etc do helps you write more authentic parts (if that's your goal.)

Understanding music comes from studying away from an instrument 1st, not playing. Gather knowledge 1st then apply and you'll be more successful....

and, sorry for inserting a personal ad, I think our free program at http://www.dlpmusicprogram.com is a great way to learn music. Check it out, if you like.

[SJ_Digriz]

IMHO everyone who creates a song or instrumental, is a musician. It doesn't matter if he/she don't knows the circle of 5th (maybe a drummer?) or can't play guitar or uses only samples. Even if someone uses parts of songs by others (think of Madeon), or just some construction kits, it IS a musician.

I don't like this elitist fuss, if someone is a good or bad musician. Either I like the music or not. And if I don't like it, that doesn't mean that someone isn't a (good) musician. For example, I don't like hardcore-distorted guitars from trash metal - but nevertheless, the players can be good musicians.

Again, it isn't elitist at all. Just like enjoying any activity that can be done at a professional and highly trained/practiced level. There are tons of people who write music who are NOT musicians. There is a ton of good music made by non-musicians.

Basically you are taking a word that had a meaning. You wish that it applied to you. So, you start chipping away at its context. By the end it completely dismisses those that have achieved. I think that is sad and selfish.