First of, I'm new to synths, at least to anything other than loading presets... However Zebra 2 is changing this, have been working thru the tutorials & studying the manual, most things are making sense - it's immensely rewarding creating from scratch sounds that I've previously liked but had no idea how they were made.
Just one thing that I'm really not getting for some reason: the "KeyFol" parameter (eg on vcf)
I've watched tutorials that use it, read the manual's description, can hear it change the sound, but I'm just not quite getting what it does, or in what situations one would think eg "this filter needs some Key Follow"...
Can anyone explain this parameter more clearly than the manual??
Thanks!
Zebra 2 - KeyFol parameter - ??
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alligatorlizard alligatorlizard https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=276868
- KVRist
- 133 posts since 14 Mar, 2012
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- KVRAF
- 24451 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Keyboard following. Let's say you have high resonance on the filter, with this you can make the filter "sing" with the sine wave set at a particular frequency. If you want to "play the filter" via keyboard, you want this resonant peak to follow the notes that you play. This is where you set keyboard follow (or also known as keytracking) to 100 and enjoy. 
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- KVRAF
- 4141 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Texas
The KeyFol modulation source can be used in Zebra to modify pretty much anything based on where you are playing on the keyboard. The most common use of it is on filters and oscillators. When used on filters it will open/close the cutoff differently.
Let's say you're making a bass patch and you really like how it sounds in the very low-end range. However, in the mid-low range you find it's lacking a bit of bite or presence. A bit of positive keyfol will open up the cutoff a bit as you go up the keyboard. This will leave your low-end bass alone but give the mid-low region what you were looking for.
It's also useful when modeling real-world sounds. Acoustic energy dissipates faster from higher frequencies than from low. Knowing this you can sculpt the shape of your amplitude envelope so that lower frequency sounds have a longer release stage than higher frequency sounds.
Let's say you're making a bass patch and you really like how it sounds in the very low-end range. However, in the mid-low range you find it's lacking a bit of bite or presence. A bit of positive keyfol will open up the cutoff a bit as you go up the keyboard. This will leave your low-end bass alone but give the mid-low region what you were looking for.
It's also useful when modeling real-world sounds. Acoustic energy dissipates faster from higher frequencies than from low. Knowing this you can sculpt the shape of your amplitude envelope so that lower frequency sounds have a longer release stage than higher frequency sounds.
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alligatorlizard alligatorlizard https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=276868
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 133 posts since 14 Mar, 2012
Thanks for replies - that's pretty much what I'd initially understood from the manual (though better explained here!), but the thing is it's not quite what I'm hearing.
eg I've got a LP filter loaded, cutoff around 100, bass notes sound nice, mid-range though is too dull. As I understand, increasing the KeyFol in this case should result in the cutoff ammount being reduced incrementally the higher you play on the keyboard. However I'm finding it brightens the sound on all ranges of the keyboard - if I increase KeyFol enough that the mid-range of the keyboard sounds brighter, so will even the lowest notes, with whose tone I was previously happy.
If this is normal though, fair enough. I can see how this parameter will be useful, and even though it sounded to me at first like KeyFol was reducing the cutoff (equally) all over the keyboard, I've just compared moving the KeyFol knob with moving the actual Cutoff knob, and KeyFol definitely is affecting the higher keys more than the lower ones.
Maybe my confusion is in part due to me misinterpreting what it says in the manual about E2 being the "breakpoint" key ("the key that doesn't change") - I'd presumed it meant that only from this key upwards did the cutoff level start being reduced. This is clearly not the case though.
So.. I don't suppose anyone could set me straight on what they mean by E2 being the breakpoint key? And if not on E2, on what note does the KeyFol parameter start reducing the cutoff? (even on the lowest A, I'm still hearing a difference when increasing KeyFol)
eg I've got a LP filter loaded, cutoff around 100, bass notes sound nice, mid-range though is too dull. As I understand, increasing the KeyFol in this case should result in the cutoff ammount being reduced incrementally the higher you play on the keyboard. However I'm finding it brightens the sound on all ranges of the keyboard - if I increase KeyFol enough that the mid-range of the keyboard sounds brighter, so will even the lowest notes, with whose tone I was previously happy.
If this is normal though, fair enough. I can see how this parameter will be useful, and even though it sounded to me at first like KeyFol was reducing the cutoff (equally) all over the keyboard, I've just compared moving the KeyFol knob with moving the actual Cutoff knob, and KeyFol definitely is affecting the higher keys more than the lower ones.
Maybe my confusion is in part due to me misinterpreting what it says in the manual about E2 being the "breakpoint" key ("the key that doesn't change") - I'd presumed it meant that only from this key upwards did the cutoff level start being reduced. This is clearly not the case though.
So.. I don't suppose anyone could set me straight on what they mean by E2 being the breakpoint key? And if not on E2, on what note does the KeyFol parameter start reducing the cutoff? (even on the lowest A, I'm still hearing a difference when increasing KeyFol)
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- KVRAF
- 24451 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
That is normal. If you find it brightens the whole keyboard range, then just decrease the cutoff value to compensate.
The E2 key (E2? Shouldn't it be E3, C3 being middle C? Argh, bloody conflicting "standards"!) will have the original cutoff value (the one to which Cutoff value is set). All other keys are scaled lower or higher depending on key follow amount. So let's say you have cutoff set so it resonates at A3 (440 Hz), with keyfollow set to 100, it will change the cutoff frequency in such way that the resonant peak will be playable in semitones throughout the whole keyboard.
The E2 key (E2? Shouldn't it be E3, C3 being middle C? Argh, bloody conflicting "standards"!) will have the original cutoff value (the one to which Cutoff value is set). All other keys are scaled lower or higher depending on key follow amount. So let's say you have cutoff set so it resonates at A3 (440 Hz), with keyfollow set to 100, it will change the cutoff frequency in such way that the resonant peak will be playable in semitones throughout the whole keyboard.
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- KVRAF
- 4141 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Texas
Whatever you want to call it, it's midi note #52. Howard shows it in action here:
Urs posted a reply why he picked E3 on youtube:
Urs posted a reply why he picked E3 on youtube:
Urs@Youtube wrote:Try slowly turning OSC1 "KeyScale" parameter to zero - all notes on your keyboard will slowly converge towards one particular note. Now find that note on your keyboard (the one that stays the same whatever the value of KeyScale). It's E3. Why E3? No particular reason, it was simply chosen as the KeyScale / key-follow pivot note for u-he synths!
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- KVRAF
- 24451 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
That's weird. The more usual pivot points for keytracking are middle C, middle E, middle A...
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- KVRAF
- 24451 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
No wait, it IS middle E. Just tried it in Z2. That's MIDI note 64.
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- KVRAF
- 24451 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Korg's workstations can do that. They have quite flexible keyboard trackers. Yes, there is definitely value in being able to do that!
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- KVRist
- 470 posts since 11 Aug, 2005 from Canada
One trick I find useful when applying positive keyboard tracking to the filter, is to do this also: apply some negative key tracking to the amp so that as you play the keyboard from left to right, you can get a volume that is consistent across the keyboard instead of getting louder due to the increase in high frequency content that can make the upper keys louder than the lows and mids.
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alligatorlizard alligatorlizard https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=276868
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 133 posts since 14 Mar, 2012
Many thanks for the replies and tips, all makes sense now - in fact I used key follow while creating a few patches last night, I can see why it's useful.
Just to clarify on the E2 thing - it's the E just below middle C, right? Midi note 52, freq 165 Hz?
Just to clarify on the E2 thing - it's the E just below middle C, right? Midi note 52, freq 165 Hz?
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- KVRAF
- 4197 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany
it's MIDI note 52, not middle E.EvilDragon wrote:No wait, it IS middle E. Just tried it in Z2. That's MIDI note 64.
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- KVRAF
- 24451 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
I could've sworn I heard a middle E there. O.o I must've been tired like nothing.
Anyways a very weird choice for the keytrack pivot point. Wish it could be changed.
Anyways a very weird choice for the keytrack pivot point. Wish it could be changed.
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- KVRAF
- 3817 posts since 8 Mar, 2006
Might be worth mentioning... that you can bend the kb mod within the mod matrix.
...just select it under mod source and under via too... than use the via to bend it into one direction or the other.
...just select it under mod source and under via too... than use the via to bend it into one direction or the other.