u-he

chilly7 · Post by **chilly7** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:32 am

I find AU much supperrior to VST2 and even 3.
Yes, i do agry there some disadvantages of AU vs VST which were already described in this thread but as core pluging protocol AU looks much more supperior to VST at my point of view.

billcarroll · Post by **billcarroll** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:14 am

chilly7 wrote:I find AU much supperrior to VST2 and even 3.
Yes, i do agry there some disadvantages of AU vs VST which were already described in this thread but as core pluging protocol AU looks much more supperior to VST at my point of view.

Superior or not, some DAWs on the mac don't give you the AU option, so those of us on Cubase eagerly await VST3 of our much loved u-he plugins

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:05 am

Sorry, any current timetable does not exist. VST3 is supposed to be part of a maintenance update that we're working on. We got nearly everything together to start testing release candidates for every plugin we support.

However, VST3 still gives us headaches: Closing a host while a plugin gui is open crashes in a way that we can not debug. We're fishing for a needle in a haystack here. Similarly, for reasons outside our code, the gui drawing takes up way too much CPU. Again, there's no documentation about this and while the same code works well with AU, it seems awkward in VST3. It reeks a bit as if those two problems are related. If we can not work around this soonishly, our support for VST3 will be delayed indefinately.

On a positive note, we found a way to work around the Cocoa namespace collisions. It's a crude hack and it might not work forever, but it seems to work well in our lab. Thus, maybe if we invest another month or so we could also port our VST2 plugins to 64 bit on Mac. However, the next version of MacOS X might stop this from working.

A third option is to switch to the shell API. As far as I know, Live only supports "the Waves way", but not the official VST shell plugin API. So I'm not sure if this is viable, and it's quite uncertain if one can switch from a bunch of single plugins to a combined shell plugin...

A final option is to make our own wrapper. We could do VST2s that in 64-bit mode simply host the AU versions. This might actually be the most clever option out of all.

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:58 am

I just bought a Macbook Pro after using 'PC's for the last 13 years, and I find AU plugins generally use the same amount of CPU, and have crackling in the sound stream on occasion, such as bypassing the plug or sometimes just randomly. Any troubles I've had have been due to AU plugins, and a lack of 64bit VSTs.

My rig is a 2.7 GHz Quad, 8GB RAM, solid state drive and Mountain Lion (10.8.2). I use Live and Cubase and I miss the smooth 64bit action of my Windows machine. Honestly, I've had more crashes and troubles on this machine than I EVER had on a well configured Windows machine. But damn it's fast. And generally more user friendly.

My 2 cents, screw the AU. I want 64bit plugins to use in 64bit Ableton live and Cubase. I bought jBridgeM today and I hope it will be sturdy in the live situation. I'm just hoping Live 9 supports VST3. but I still feel it is a bit lame if users such as myself have to upgrade to v9 just to use a 64bit plugin.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:51 pm

Actually, while everyone was working on installers today, I bit the bullet and gave that Cocoa thing a try... we might have some good news... dunno... too early to say, but still.

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:55 am

see! "never fail Urs", you're just too fuckin awesome.

phidelity · Post by **phidelity** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:56 am

Urs wrote:Sorry, any current timetable does not exist. VST3 is supposed to be part of a maintenance update that we're working on. We got nearly everything together to start testing release candidates for every plugin we support.

However, VST3 still gives us headaches: Closing a host while a plugin gui is open crashes in a way that we can not debug. We're fishing for a needle in a haystack here. Similarly, for reasons outside our code, the gui drawing takes up way too much CPU. Again, there's no documentation about this and while the same code works well with AU, it seems awkward in VST3. It reeks a bit as if those two problems are related. If we can not work around this soonishly, our support for VST3 will be delayed indefinately.

On a positive note, we found a way to work around the Cocoa namespace collisions. It's a crude hack and it might not work forever, but it seems to work well in our lab. Thus, maybe if we invest another month or so we could also port our VST2 plugins to 64 bit on Mac. However, the next version of MacOS X might stop this from working.

A third option is to switch to the shell API. As far as I know, Live only supports "the Waves way", but not the official VST shell plugin API. So I'm not sure if this is viable, and it's quite uncertain if one can switch from a bunch of single plugins to a combined shell plugin...

A final option is to make our own wrapper. We could do VST2s that in 64-bit mode simply host the AU versions. This might actually be the most clever option out of all.

Thanks for sharing how your efforts are going - very much apreciatated. Damm! I was hoping for better news but best of luck cracking that problem.

phi

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:27 am

sqigls wrote:I find AU plugins generally use the same amount of CPU, and have crackling in the sound stream on occasion, such as bypassing the plug or sometimes just randomly. Any troubles I've had have been due to AU plugins, and a lack of 64bit VSTs.

OK I'll say it. Been using AU for years, with Live anyway you shouldn't have that issue at all, so it's not AU that's the Problem. The only time I ever get crackling in the sound stream is the same common reason anybody can get it, over taxing the CPU. Again, look elsewhere, something is amok.

Tom Drinkwater · Post by **Tom Drinkwater** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 pm

i don't think there's anything wrong with the au standard, but some hosts just don't handle them very well.

reaper for example, is much less stable with au plugins than with vst, and doesn't support vst3 either.

getting software that all plays nicely together is increasingly difficult.

chilly7 · Post by **chilly7** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:16 pm

sqigls wrote:I just bought a Macbook Pro after using 'PC's for the last 13 years, and I find AU plugins generally use the same amount of CPU, and have crackling in the sound stream on occasion, such as bypassing the plug or sometimes just randomly. Any troubles I've had have been due to AU plugins, and a lack of 64bit VSTs.

My rig is a 2.7 GHz Quad, 8GB RAM, solid state drive and Mountain Lion (10.8.2). I use Live and Cubase and I miss the smooth 64bit action of my Windows machine. Honestly, I've had more crashes and troubles on this machine than I EVER had on a well configured Windows machine. But damn it's fast. And generally more user friendly.

My 2 cents, screw the AU. I want 64bit plugins to use in 64bit Ableton live and Cubase. I bought jBridgeM today and I hope it will be sturdy in the live situation. I'm just hoping Live 9 supports VST3. but I still feel it is a bit lame if users such as myself have to upgrade to v9 just to use a 64bit plugin.

Did u bought a new Macbook pro Retina?

What is u buffer size? U might want to incress it and see if it will solve the crucking
What sample rate are u working at?

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:36 pm

sqigls wrote:I just bought a Macbook Pro after using 'PC's for the last 13 years, and I find AU plugins generally use the same amount of CPU, and have crackling in the sound stream on occasion, such as bypassing the plug or sometimes just randomly. Any troubles I've had have been due to AU plugins, and a lack of 64bit VSTs.

My rig is a 2.7 GHz Quad, 8GB RAM, solid state drive and Mountain Lion (10.8.2). I use Live and Cubase and I miss the smooth 64bit action of my Windows machine. Honestly, I've had more crashes and troubles on this machine than I EVER had on a well configured Windows machine. But damn it's fast. And generally more user friendly.

My 2 cents, screw the AU. I want 64bit plugins to use in 64bit Ableton live and Cubase. I bought jBridgeM today and I hope it will be sturdy in the live situation. I'm just hoping Live 9 supports VST3. but I still feel it is a bit lame if users such as myself have to upgrade to v9 just to use a 64bit plugin.

Live 9 does not support VST3 unfortunately. I found jBridgeM to be a complete pain to use, I ditched it. Diva is the only AU I'm willing to use, so I'm quite happy to hear that they are making progress with VST2 64bit. I'd even buy Zebra back again if it happens...

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:10 pm

We're having good success with VST2 64-bit in Studio One and Cubase. In Reaper we have a minor gui problem (we draw above the menu bar), and we haven't checked Live 9 yet.

Seems surprisingly painless.

There's still a possible crash when closing the host while gui's are open. Same as VST3. Might be doable

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:12 pm

Hey guys, should I expect Zebra2 to still be wrapped by Cubase 7 in Mountain Lion? I take it you're still working on 64-bit support for Mac VST?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:50 pm

bduffy wrote:Hey guys, should I expect Zebra2 to still be wrapped by Cubase 7 in Mountain Lion? I take it you're still working on 64-bit support for Mac VST?

Yep, still workng on it. We might have a public beta soon!

taoyoyo · Post by **taoyoyo** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:57 pm

As Mr-very-Happy-that-VST64-might-be-an-option I'd be happy to help test when they're ready!

u-he

KVR Audio

64 bit Mac VST timeline?