Whom we were talking about in sheffield mate, Its just the good ol' 'Six Degrees Of Shane Embury' - If one can not link anything under-ish ground metal with Mr.Embury in more than six...It just ain't good enough
I might have to admittedly actually look into this as I have no clue (I think) what 'outsider music' is, Gives me something to keep busy with whilst the ears are fukked though John and the rest of You chaps, Thanks
Best to You all as always
Dean
songs in the key of z
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Dean Aka Nekro Dean Aka Nekro https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=162100 - KVRAF
- 6178 posts since 4 Oct, 2007 from Escaped At Last
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- addled muppet weed
- Topic Starter
- 111275 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
outsider music isnt a genre, its not a style, its just about music in all its forms, but perhaps not as practiced/perfect as most other musics.Dean Aka Nekro wrote:I might have to admittedly actually look into this as I have no clue (I think) what 'outsider music' is, Gives me something to keep busy with whilst the ears are fukked though John and the rest of You chaps, Thanks
Best to You all as always
Dean
its not neccassarilly about trying to be weird it often just is, its music with integrity, the musicians in most cases will be little known because they dont conform to any standards within the area they are playing.
i guess its about not caring/worrying about what people think, in many cases due to some form of mental illness, but not always.
daniel johnson, the shaggs and jandek are good places to begin your journey, or of course anything mentioned so far in this thread
some you will love, some you will hate, some you may even think "what the f**k!!?" but you will enjoy the trip.
http://www.sonorika.com/jandek
hope the meds are helping with the labrythitis!
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Dean Aka Nekro Dean Aka Nekro https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=162100
- KVRAF
- 6178 posts since 4 Oct, 2007 from Escaped At Last
Thank you for the explanation mate, I will be sure to checkout those mentioned already, It is not a way in which I have ever even thought about how some are bands/artists are viewed but glad I have the chance via this thread with even books to go for should it stir something inside that gets me onto pastures new, Nice one Gary, Sean, Barry and You other Gents
I think I have an idea of what the spirit of the term refers to/hints at, Again I appreciate how You and other here can condense things down so well so that those like me can even have a chance to 'get' it
Labrythitus - Well what my GP gave me seem to be doing a good job FWIW incase anyone else happens to get it, I am on two week course of 'Prohlorperazine'. Feeling alot less seasick and the dizzyness has calmed. The odd motion sickness as if I were travelling forwards yet I am stationary, Either sat down or standing is still about the same but hell alot better than I was. I've not used any headphones, I have left the television off or just listened to the sound of anything I happen to watch regular. As it is made worse via
visually focusing on picture, However sound/music at my normal/sensible levels do not have an affect either way which is a bonus. Even played a
few riffs last night with a smaller amp setup than normal. It is odd as I was expecting it to be the opposite with audio/sound triggering it/worsening it.
I would of started a thread about it and may do once it has cleared up just
incase anyone else gets it or something similar. Monitor glare can do it also, But just regular breaks, Using my loaf really.
Anyway apologies for this off topic part. I do hope everyone else is in as good health as possible. Take it easy, take care. Have a good weekend and best to all
"Sealegs" Dean
I think I have an idea of what the spirit of the term refers to/hints at, Again I appreciate how You and other here can condense things down so well so that those like me can even have a chance to 'get' it
Labrythitus - Well what my GP gave me seem to be doing a good job FWIW incase anyone else happens to get it, I am on two week course of 'Prohlorperazine'. Feeling alot less seasick and the dizzyness has calmed. The odd motion sickness as if I were travelling forwards yet I am stationary, Either sat down or standing is still about the same but hell alot better than I was. I've not used any headphones, I have left the television off or just listened to the sound of anything I happen to watch regular. As it is made worse via
visually focusing on picture, However sound/music at my normal/sensible levels do not have an affect either way which is a bonus. Even played a
few riffs last night with a smaller amp setup than normal. It is odd as I was expecting it to be the opposite with audio/sound triggering it/worsening it.
I would of started a thread about it and may do once it has cleared up just
incase anyone else gets it or something similar. Monitor glare can do it also, But just regular breaks, Using my loaf really.
Anyway apologies for this off topic part. I do hope everyone else is in as good health as possible. Take it easy, take care. Have a good weekend and best to all
"Sealegs" Dean
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- KVRAF
- 8101 posts since 13 Jan, 2003 from Darkest Kent, UK
I think it's an abused term too.
My understanding is the 'outsider' label was first used for artists specifically in mental institutions (french art brut movement etc) and was later opened up to anyone outside the mainstream art world just doing their own thing. It's certainly become a collectable genre which inevitably means there are people out there choosing to exploit it, choosing to make 'outsider art'.
I guess it's a judgement call on how you classify artists; certainly the likes of daniel johnston and wesley willis just make/made music for no other reason then they wanted/had to with no real thought of it's place in the bigger picture. Whereas maybe The Tinklers, college professors clunking along on homemade instruments..? Certainly never going to bother the charts but they must be aware of what it is they're creating, how it's perceived etc. Not denegrating them at all (very entertaining!) btw.
I guess what I'm saying is you could classify most of us as 'outsider musicians'; bashing away at home, making music unlikely to get heard by more than a couple of people, no real expectation of ever getting much further but happy just doing it (sorry, maybe that's just me) but we know that and can perceive our 'place' in the big musical world. Whereas a genuine outsider artist doesn't, they make stuff and that's about it.
My understanding is the 'outsider' label was first used for artists specifically in mental institutions (french art brut movement etc) and was later opened up to anyone outside the mainstream art world just doing their own thing. It's certainly become a collectable genre which inevitably means there are people out there choosing to exploit it, choosing to make 'outsider art'.
I guess it's a judgement call on how you classify artists; certainly the likes of daniel johnston and wesley willis just make/made music for no other reason then they wanted/had to with no real thought of it's place in the bigger picture. Whereas maybe The Tinklers, college professors clunking along on homemade instruments..? Certainly never going to bother the charts but they must be aware of what it is they're creating, how it's perceived etc. Not denegrating them at all (very entertaining!) btw.
I guess what I'm saying is you could classify most of us as 'outsider musicians'; bashing away at home, making music unlikely to get heard by more than a couple of people, no real expectation of ever getting much further but happy just doing it (sorry, maybe that's just me
) but we know that and can perceive our 'place' in the big musical world. Whereas a genuine outsider artist doesn't, they make stuff and that's about it.-
- addled muppet weed
- Topic Starter
- 111275 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
yeah, outsider music is not the same as weird music
but both can be great, but you can choose to make one but not the other
but both can be great, but you can choose to make one but not the other
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- KVRAF
- 8101 posts since 13 Jan, 2003 from Darkest Kent, UK
exactly.vurt wrote:yeah, outsider music is not the same as weird music
but both can be great, but you can choose to make one but not the other
and stated a damn sight more succinctly than my post.
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- addled muppet weed
- Topic Starter
- 111275 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
yeah perhaps, but i discovered the tinklers from yoor post
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- KVRAF
- 4801 posts since 1 Aug, 2005 from Warszawa, Poland
The Tinklers! I love them. But this ain't no outsider music, everything else is.
The Tinklers wrote:I'd like to be born again, as a soda can...
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- addled muppet weed
- Topic Starter
- 111275 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
haz kittehs too
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- KVRAF
- 3321 posts since 2 Jul, 2007
I really respect Irwin Chusid (WFMU, BTW), hoever....
I've been fascinated by "Outsider Art" for a long time now, and I do not agree with the premise that these novelty acts represent true "outsiders". Or the stated premise that these are untrained people - they can be, but sometimes they are classically-trained.
William Blake was as much of an Outsider as anyone you could ever see - but he had mondo chops in printmaking.
The closest thing I can think of to a true outsider in modern American music is Harry Partch, who was a hobo for ten years and built his instruments out of garbage. But he was classically-trained.
Maybe Magma. Or The Shaggs.
Maybe pictures will describe better what I mean...
F. X. Messerschmidt
http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/at/at1 ... 0904aa.jpg
Adolf Wolfli
http://psychevanhetfolk.homestead.com/f ... ations.jpg
Stanislaw Szukalski
http://bialczynski.files.wordpress.com/ ... unek01.gif
Paul Laffoley (please note that both Laffoley and Szukalski have deep, dense PHILOSOPHIES behind their work)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--bVkzfa1UvQ/T ... b32f_o.jpg
Henry Darger
http://www.emptykingdom.com/main/wp-con ... Darger.jpg
And of course, Francis E. Dec
http://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/MRFRCrant.jpg
I've been fascinated by "Outsider Art" for a long time now, and I do not agree with the premise that these novelty acts represent true "outsiders". Or the stated premise that these are untrained people - they can be, but sometimes they are classically-trained.
William Blake was as much of an Outsider as anyone you could ever see - but he had mondo chops in printmaking.
The closest thing I can think of to a true outsider in modern American music is Harry Partch, who was a hobo for ten years and built his instruments out of garbage. But he was classically-trained.
Maybe Magma. Or The Shaggs.
Maybe pictures will describe better what I mean...
F. X. Messerschmidt
http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/at/at1 ... 0904aa.jpg
Adolf Wolfli
http://psychevanhetfolk.homestead.com/f ... ations.jpg
Stanislaw Szukalski
http://bialczynski.files.wordpress.com/ ... unek01.gif
Paul Laffoley (please note that both Laffoley and Szukalski have deep, dense PHILOSOPHIES behind their work)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--bVkzfa1UvQ/T ... b32f_o.jpg
Henry Darger
http://www.emptykingdom.com/main/wp-con ... Darger.jpg
And of course, Francis E. Dec
http://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/MRFRCrant.jpg
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- KVRAF
- 1769 posts since 30 Jul, 2007
now i know where i fit in! thank you.
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- addled muppet weed
- Topic Starter
- 111275 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
chusid makes no claims about what outsider music is or isnt, he just presents some of his favourites who fit what is a loose term in his estmation.SODDI wrote:I really respect Irwin Chusid (WFMU, BTW), hoever....
I've been fascinated by "Outsider Art" for a long time now, and I do not agree with the premise that these novelty acts represent true "outsiders". Or the stated premise that these are untrained people - they can be, but sometimes they are classically-trained.
the fact that he includes a chapter on partch and mentions many other trained musicians in the suggested listening at the rear of the book only supports what you say, that outsiders come from all across the musical universe.
to dismiss any of them as "novelty acts" is erroneous on your part.
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- KVRAF
- 4801 posts since 1 Aug, 2005 from Warszawa, Poland
I don't know, I always had a preference for artists who develop their own worlds to the point when they sound like nothing else. There's some novelty in it, but for me it looks like novelty is value for itself here - concerning that book, the guy seems a freak show collector, valuating items just for the amount of strangeness. Which is not a passion I share. I'm sorry, but opt in for dismissing some of those acts as pure "novelty". In contrast, for example Daniel Johnston has some novelty/freak/curiosity/crazy vibe, but is IMO a great artist by any standard. Dismissing anything just because of it looking like a novelty act is one thing, but loving any insane person who make sounds, just for the sake of craziness is something different.
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- KVRAF
- 10170 posts since 2 Jan, 2005 from somewhere in the woods
+ 1Zombie Queen wrote:I don't know, I always had a preference for artists who develop their own worlds to the point when they sound like nothing else. There's some novelty in it, but for me it looks like novelty is value for itself here - concerning that book, the guy seems a freak show collector, valuating items just for the amount of strangeness. Which is not a passion I share. I'm sorry, but opt in for dismissing some of those acts as pure "novelty". In contrast, for example Daniel Johnston has some novelty/freak/curiosity/crazy vibe, but is IMO a great artist by any standard. Dismissing anything just because of it looking like a novelty act is one thing, but loving any insane person who make sounds, just for the sake of craziness is something different.
"It dreamed itself along"