Polyphonic Guitar to MIDI VST/AU "MIDI Guitar"- BETA TEST

[jdt]

Noodle away, Telenator. Or don't waste your precious time. I could care less, really. No need to get so defensive. Beta testing is what it is and no amount of bloviating and complaining will likely change that.

Finding and reporting bugs. That's what this thread's for, isn't it? I reported things early on, and they were addressed immediately. I've been lucky enough to not have any issues with MidiGuitar since the third beta. Works fine in my DAWs.

You seem to have the same tone consistently in most of your posts. First time in over seven years of KVR membership that I actually considered using the "mute me" function though.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

[nix808]

The problem with 0 crossings is that the notes in a chord sum and you can't distinguish pitch intervals of different notes. The pitch interval is all the notes jumbled together. Even when you use a hex pickup, then this problem arise- using a plain 0 crossing counter sounds terrible. The counter needs a signal which is carefully band-passed and low passed to have any semblance of delivering a stable figure. So that is the only method with which I am familiar, I have spent many hours with my hex pickups and translating polyphonically to MIDI. It's really close to being peachy keen now.

[AdmiralQuality]

Telenator, you seem to think JamOrigin owe you something. They don't.

As to never hearing of a product being sold in beta, that only goes to illustrate your ignorance. We do, and I can think of many other plug-in developers who do it as well. It's VERY common. It's not selling false promises because you shouldn't buy it (and nobody is forcing you to) if the functionality of the Beta is not already worth the price to you. This practice can however reward users for being early adopters, and if they're lucky enough that the software gets finished and the "promises" come true, then they've won a little gamble. But again, nobody should buy Beta software if they don't feel its current functionality provides reasonable value for the price. That it most likely matures to version 1 at some point, and you ended up getting a deal, is nothing but a bonus. You are a potential customer, not an investor. Anyone purchasing the software in Beta receives value instantly and again, any speculative aspect about the future state of the product should be viewed only as an extra.

JamOrigin's software is already a very useful and revolutionary tool, and hence has value. It also works in a free demo mode so you can "noodle" to your heart's content without any investment whatsoever. That there are more features pending (bends on multichannel MIDI output being the glaring one) does not reduce the value of what it already DOES do. For many, I'm sure that's well worth the current price.

And again, nobody's forcing you to buy it. Yet you seem to have this sense of entitlement as if their company's internal decisions are some kind of democracy that you have a right to expect transparency of. You don't, they are a private company. And lecturing a company from Denmark about the "American Way" is laughable as well. The American Way, as it applies here, is if you don't like it, vote with your wallet and don't buy it.

[The Telenator]

jdt, you're a day late and a dollar short, but we see you've put in your best effort here, even that 'bloviating' bit.

Feel free to mute away if it suits. People who routinely dish it out but can't take it sometimes resort to such things. Your choice. Now we move on to you telling us 'what this thread is for.' This thread is for any KVR member to post essentially anything he or she finds pertinent to the topic -- or not I suppose. I never tell people what they should or shouldn't say. It's none of my business, you see, and I'm not interested in playing at thread monitor.

You know, I find the KVR forums unique among all the music-related I've seen. You'll find members with true professional experience and sometimes even great expertise trying to benefit both themselves and others by sharing and seeking information, while a heartbeat away you'll have some poser merely clogging up the works. I mean, it's this odd mix of what's to be found in other forums -- e.g., the Les Paul Forum where its all posing, flaming and snobbery 24/7 on the one hand, to the Sound on Sound where is more strictly serious discussion. I was too lucky at KVR at first; I seemed to only stumble into threads where members were behaving maturely and obviously sincere in their motives.

But it wasn't very long before I discovered the bullies and various other seedy types. There are a whole lot of us, you might want to know, who have been in the business far too long to suffer such fools, and we tend to spot them quickly.

You mentioned what you consider my 'consistent tone' and you are correct to some degree. But you might be more interested to know that my 'tone' is quite consistent on certain other forums yet very different. Did you know, for instance, that there are other forums, such as Reaper's, Zynewave's, SOS, Fender, Seymour Duncan, Madrona, blog & post boards at CM, MusicRadar, bpb, and even some dedicated company and designer threads here on KVR where you can enter to post and discuss without needing to be constantly prepared to have some snarky member for lunch should they act out or attempt to start trouble? I'm thinking some here need to get out a bit more often to see how adults interact elsewhere. Some of these KVR threads smell like they are rotting from the inside out. I find this troubling and unfortunate. I find entirely too much tunnel vision going on here, too many haunting too few threads, mistakenly believing the thread is all about them. I'm finding little kings and princes around here, and it's baffling.

In general, and as regards this tone you have concerned yourself with, I will make an extra effort and take ultimate time to try to help out members whom I believe are sincere, because basically I've already made my money, climbed most of my mountains and can make time to share the things I've learned along the way. But I am usually pretty quick to dispatch those I feel aren't worth my efforts. And all of this is as I choose. I'm a little too independently secure and a little beyond being told what I should do anymore. I hope this helps you in your analysis. BTW, next time you 'couldn't care less', I won't mind at all if you don't bother to respond.

Cheers!
Tele

[The Telenator]

AdmiralQuality, I see you have decided to have your own personal cow as well, so I should address your concerns too? Look here, my business was with JamOrigin, not you unless you are his significant other or something to that effect. I'm entitled to my own opinions; I stated them. If you don't like it I suppose that's just TOO BAD, isn't it?

Now, JamOrigin stepped up to address every concern I had. Further, I suspect his concise and intelligent response will result in even more sales should various observers take the time to look it over. I need to stress strongly that I do not tolerate this fanboi nonsense one bit at all, so consider taking it elsewhere. I believe further that Jamorigin is completely capable handling his own business, which he did 'admirably' and which is much more than I can say of certain others. Please try to get out and get some fresh air if you can.

[AdmiralQuality]

AdmiralQuality, I see you have decided to have your own personal cow as well, so I should address your concerns too? Look here, my business was with JamOrigin, not you unless you are his significant other or something to that effect. I'm entitled to my own opinions; I stated them. If you don't like it I suppose that's just TOO BAD, isn't it?

Now, JamOrigin stepped up to address every concern I had. Further, I suspect his concise and intelligent response will result in even more sales should various observers take the time to look it over. I need to stress strongly that I do not tolerate this fanboi nonsense one bit at all, so consider taking it elsewhere. I believe further that Jamorigin is completely capable handling his own business, which he did 'admirably' and which is much more than I can say of certain others. Please try to get out and get some fresh air if you can.

[jdt]

jdt, you're a day late and a dollar short, but we see you've put in your best effort here, even that 'bloviating' bit...



... BTW, next time you 'couldn't care less', I won't mind at all if you don't bother to respond.

Cheers!
Tele

Oh my, I think my last feeling has just been hurt!

My sincere apologies, Your Highness.

[Daggilarr]

The last thing this thread needs is pages of responses concerned with people trying to troubleshoot their emotions........and pride....... I logged in to look for some technical help in using this software. so to that then.....

My interface is a Focusrite Saffirre Pro24, into an iMac running Logic. these have good clear preamps but suffer from 'gain bunching' so all of the gain tends to be at the end of the rotation and very tiny adjustments appear to make a big impact on MG.

Trying to use keyboard instruments like piano or harpsichord seems to result in either lots of missed notes or lots of false triggers. I also experienced this with some guitar instruments, a 12 string, a classical, (all in kontakt)

I would be interested to hear about how others are handling the guitar signal in, has anyone else got the same interface or had a similar problem.

I need to also bear in mind that gain level needs to work for my normal guitar signal as well and at times when I have that right its to low to trigger the midi.

Things seem to work much better when playing single note sequences but as soon as I attempt a series of chords I run into trouble, missed notes or false triggers that render it unusable.

[ariajazz]

The last thing this thread needs is pages of responses concerned with people trying to troubleshoot their emotions........and pride.......

I was about to say the same thing, you can find more out of topic posts here in KVR than any other forum.

Regarding your case you have to consider a few things:

1.- Input impedance of you interface. A high Z instrument input is requiered for any guitar plugin since it will give you a fully and strong signal. In many cases line in preamps are not enough to handle this signal properly. If your interface does not have high Z input you can use a DI box or an external mic preamp such as ART MP STUDIO which I use with excelent results. Also a stomp box will do the job. Once you have achieved a good and proper signal is a matter of "sensitivity" adjustment in MG.

2.- Ghost notes and false triggering occur when sensitivity is set too high. A balance between input level and MG sensitivity will get you to a clean playability. Missing notes is another story, a lack of an even signal in many cases. I've treated this problem by placing a compressor before MG input and it helps a lot. Also manual pitch sesitivity in MG is helpful. Pre EQing can help too.

3.- Not every synth and/or presets are suitable for guitar midi triggering, specially the sample based ones. I've found KONTAKT not to be very friendly for this purpose. Guitar samples or emulations just don't work as desire, even in Roland systems these presets just don't sound and feel OK, I have never achieved a decent result with these kind of presets, probably only a BANJO patch in my old GR1 is uable.

I think these guitar presets and sounds from synths are designed to be triggered by a keyboard and allow keyboardists to play some guitar parts in certain situations. Triggering midi notes from a guitar is completely different and synths react differently as well. I would not expect to get good results triggering guitar samples with any midi guitar system, If you wanna PLAY guitar just use your guitars.

4.- Polyphony in MG is a HUGE accomplishment and people here like FrettedSynth and Admiral Quality know it very well. Only hexaphonic systems track poly in a satisfactory way. MIDI GUITAR is still not perfect and polyphony issues have been mentioned and reported constantly in this forum. I'm sure JamOrigin guys have taken notice about and are working to improve this feature.

5.- As said before not every synth or patch react the same to midi triggering so choose the right ones by trial an error and TWEAK them. Attack and release settings are crucial when you're about to get a good preset for playing with ANY guitar to midi system.

[Daggilarr]

I was about to say the same thing, you can find more out of topic posts here in KVR than any other forum.

Regarding your case you have to consider a few things:

1.- Input impedance of you interface. A high Z instrument input is requiered for any guitar plugin since it will give you a fully and strong signal. In many cases line in preamps are not enough to handle this signal properly. If your interface does not have high Z input you can use a DI box or an external mic preamp such as ART MP STUDIO which I use with excelent results. Also a stomp box will do the job. Once you have achieved a good and proper signal is a matter of "sensitivity" adjustment in MG.

This is my interface http://uk.focusrite.com/firewire-audio- ... ifications
I feel sure that the preamps are suitable but please correct me if I am wrong.

2.- Ghost notes and false triggering occur when sensitivity is set too high. A balance between input level and MG sensitivity will get you to a clean playability. Missing notes is another story, a lack of an even signal in many cases. I've treated this problem by placing a compressor before MG input and it helps a lot. Also manual pitch sesitivity in MG is helpful. Pre EQing can help too.

I find that the gain bunching makes this tweaking difficult, Are you talking about a "Hardware compressor" is is possible to put a software compressor in before MG ? if so which one? I could use the DSP one in the Pro24

3.- Not every synth and/or presets are suitable for guitar midi triggering, specially the sample based ones. I've found KONTAKT not to be very friendly for this purpose. Guitar samples or emulations just don't work as desire, even in Roland systems these presets just don't sound and feel OK, I have never achieved a decent result with these kind of presets, probably only a BANJO patch in my old GR1 is usable.


I think these guitar presets and sounds from synths are designed to be triggered by a keyboard and allow keyboardists to play some guitar parts in certain situations. Triggering midi notes from a guitar is completely different and synths react differently as well. I would not expect to get good results triggering guitar samples with any midi guitar system, If you wanna PLAY guitar just use your guitars.

I agree that emulating guitars is largely pointless, though in this instance it was a 12 string that I do not have, The main culprit is Piano I also attempted Harpsichord for a simple renaissance guitar piece. I have found both instrument completely unusable other than in monophonic (Kontakt and others)

4.- Polyphony in MG is a HUGE accomplishment and people here like FrettedSynth and Admiral Quality know it very well. Only hexaphonic systems track poly in a satisfactory way. MIDI GUITAR is still not perfect and polyphony issues have been mentioned and reported constantly in this forum. I'm sure JamOrigin guys have taken notice about and are working to improve this feature.

5.- As said before not every synth or patch react the same to midi triggering so choose the right ones by trial an error and TWEAK them. Attack and release settings are crucial when you're about to get a good preset for playing with ANY guitar to midi system.

I know that my guitar technique leaves a lot to be desired at any level, I am basically an acoustic finger-style player and this is probably the style midi likes the least.

[AdmiralQuality]

This is my interface http://uk.focusrite.com/firewire-audio- ... ifications
I feel sure that the preamps are suitable but please correct me if I am wrong.

You need to make sure the INST LED is on in order to create a high-impedance (Hi-Z) input for guitar or bass. (Line input is typically an impedence of around 1000 Ohms, a kilohm, 1kOhm. Instrument inputs on guitar amps are about 1000 times more than that, 1000000 Ohms, a megaohm, 1MOhm or 1000kOhm.)

Not sure offhand how you activate it. In the product's software control panel?

[Daggilarr]

You need to make sure the INST LED is on in order to create a high-impedance (Hi-Z) input for guitar or bass. (Line input is typically an impedence of around 1000 Ohms, a kilohm, 1kOhm. Instrument inputs on guitar amps are about 1000 times more than that, 1000000 Ohms, a megaohm, 1MOhm or 1000kOhm.)

Not sure offhand how you activate it. In the product's software control panel?

Well spotted They were indeed set to line level, this has increased my ability to tweak Thanks for the tip...

Can anyone suggest a set of compressor settings that may help? the Pro 24 DSP FX compressor will work on the input

[AdmiralQuality]

You need to make sure the INST LED is on in order to create a high-impedance (Hi-Z) input for guitar or bass. (Line input is typically an impedence of around 1000 Ohms, a kilohm, 1kOhm. Instrument inputs on guitar amps are about 1000 times more than that, 1000000 Ohms, a megaohm, 1MOhm or 1000kOhm.)

Not sure offhand how you activate it. In the product's software control panel?

Well spotted They were indeed set to line level, this has increased my ability to tweak Thanks for the tip...

Can anyone suggest a set of compressor settings that may help? the Pro 24 DSP FX compressor will work on the input

A guitar into a regular line level input will have it's tone "sapped". It will lack sustain and have EQ problems. So NOW you're correctly inputting guitar to your DAW. Amp sims will sound a thousand times better now as well.

Oh and I don't think you should need a compressor. Try it now that you're getting a good signal. MIDI-Guitar seems to compensate for gain automatically, so it's basically its own compressor. Anyway, definitely try it clean before "fixing" something that may not be broken.

[Daggilarr]

Amen to that

[ariajazz]

Oh and I don't think you should need a compressor. Try it now that you're getting a good signal. MIDI-Guitar seems to compensate for gain automatically, so it's basically its own compressor. Anyway, definitely try it clean before "fixing" something that may not be broken.

This is true MG smooths out the signal characteristics in terms of sensitivity acording to pitch.

Even though TWEAKING is the answer. I've found synths that respond very well with guitar clean signal (NI FM8), others not so quite. I use a free Roland JUNO series VST, which has a nice and warmth vintage sound but it presents some sensitivity problems among the entire pitch scale, low notes, for example requiere more velocity to trigger smooth notes. On the highs is the oposite, less velocity will track better (check out also attack, decay, sustain, release of the preset you're using to get better results). I placed a multiband compressor VST in front of MG input and it solved the problem completely. Sometimes according to the synth you use placing a compressor on the output stage evens and smooths out the results.

According to your interface's specifications you have 2 Hi Z intrument inputs, but I think this have been already solved.

MIDI GUITAR is completely usable, It works, with a few issues but it works. Tweaking will get you to the results. I'm sure JamOrigin is comming with new fixed things and other features.

BTW what DAW are you using?