So, Muso's let's talk... Make me a believer!
Parts, sequences and MuLab...
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
O.K. folks, this is the parts and sequences thread... which stems from me trying to figure out the difference, and to find out what other people do with this "feature" of MuLab. I'm totally baffled by this shared parts concept. Never got it in the MuSys days, still don't. I create a midi sequence on a track, and if I need to add automation I add a subtrack or use the clip automation. I have never shared a "part" and I'm not sure how I would? I know you can create audio sequences, midi sequences and automation sequences... but beyond that, and how they are shared other than pointing a track to a subtrack, is there something I'm missing???
So, Muso's let's talk... Make me a believer!
So, Muso's let's talk... Make me a believer!
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- KVRAF
- 13863 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Shared sequences work like patterns on a drum machine. You can reuse them. For me personally they're ideal for quick jamming and prototyping new ideas. I also gave an example in this topic: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=374174
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- KVRAF
- 13863 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
More on parts and sequences here:
http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/overview.html
http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/composer.html
http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/overview.html
http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/composer.html
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
No one has any comment on parts and sequences... How you use the loop and part capabilities in a sequence. Do you target sequences with multiple tracks/racks. i.e. "share" parts. I think the loop within a sequence thing is interesting, but it would be nice if you could say loop this part "X" amount of times then play the first part... ???
I loop sequences a lot for drums, but I'm not getting too much use out of the loop within a loop aspect.
I loop sequences a lot for drums, but I'm not getting too much use out of the loop within a loop aspect.
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- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
First off, getting the definitions right will help.
Sequence is the container of event data. As I learned, it also has the sequence loop start and end points.
Part is a view onto this sequence data. The part is what you arrange in the composer on the tracks. So one track can have more than one part and each of those parts could either have its own sequence or share an existing sequence.
Indeed, there is no restriction to keeping the parts on the same track, of course. You could have a part on different track sharing one of your sequences.
So a "shared part" is really short hand for "a part where the sequence is shared with other parts". It doesn't mean the part itself is shared.
Now why?
Say you have a drum track. Most drum track are fairly repetitive, at least until you start to listen to them hard. So for getting a track going, it's good to be able to lay down a short pattern and then just use it as much as you want. Say you lay down a one bar sequence. You could stretch this over 48 bars of you song. At this point, it's going to sound pretty dull, though, but it lets you work on the other parts of the song. The reason this "stretching" works is the default loop points. This is a single part and a single sequence, the part 48 times longer than the sequence.
At some point you'll decide the drum part needs more life. You start by looking at the end of each four bar section. So you split up your existing part at these points. At this point, you get multiple parts sharing the sequence, 12 "shared parts", each four times the sequence length. You decide to have the same variation, for now, in 11 places out of the 12 with a different pattern at the very end. So you shorten all 12 parts (select them all, shorten one, they'll all shorten). First, shorten all of them by a beat. Then shorten the final part by a bar. You've now space to put the variations in.
You create the end of phrase variation for the "one beat" sequence in a new part. You copy this (shared) to the next 10 ends of phrase positions. For the final phrase, you create a new sequence in a new part.
It's still a bit stilted but it's starting to get there.
Of course, you may not work like this. You may be able to compose a full drum track for a song in one go from start to end with all the variations and phrasing. If so, you may not see much advantage, I guess.
Sequence is the container of event data. As I learned, it also has the sequence loop start and end points.
Part is a view onto this sequence data. The part is what you arrange in the composer on the tracks. So one track can have more than one part and each of those parts could either have its own sequence or share an existing sequence.
Indeed, there is no restriction to keeping the parts on the same track, of course. You could have a part on different track sharing one of your sequences.
So a "shared part" is really short hand for "a part where the sequence is shared with other parts". It doesn't mean the part itself is shared.
Now why?
Say you have a drum track. Most drum track are fairly repetitive, at least until you start to listen to them hard. So for getting a track going, it's good to be able to lay down a short pattern and then just use it as much as you want. Say you lay down a one bar sequence. You could stretch this over 48 bars of you song. At this point, it's going to sound pretty dull, though, but it lets you work on the other parts of the song. The reason this "stretching" works is the default loop points. This is a single part and a single sequence, the part 48 times longer than the sequence.
At some point you'll decide the drum part needs more life. You start by looking at the end of each four bar section. So you split up your existing part at these points. At this point, you get multiple parts sharing the sequence, 12 "shared parts", each four times the sequence length. You decide to have the same variation, for now, in 11 places out of the 12 with a different pattern at the very end. So you shorten all 12 parts (select them all, shorten one, they'll all shorten). First, shorten all of them by a beat. Then shorten the final part by a bar. You've now space to put the variations in.
You create the end of phrase variation for the "one beat" sequence in a new part. You copy this (shared) to the next 10 ends of phrase positions. For the final phrase, you create a new sequence in a new part.
It's still a bit stilted but it's starting to get there.
Of course, you may not work like this. You may be able to compose a full drum track for a song in one go from start to end with all the variations and phrasing. If so, you may not see much advantage, I guess.
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- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
So that's the bit I guess you're comfortable with.
The loop start marker come in where you've a sequence that has an introductory phrase. You can have a part that starts with this intro, then loops. A separate part can start after the intro. So, you can share the sequence between the two parts without having to edit the looped parts for each.
The loop end is something I think is under-used or I don't get the best from myself: I'd like to be able to have a part that didn't loop play from part start past the loop end marker - effectively a coda part - but I don't see how to do this. (So, one sequence, three sections - intro, loop, coda; two or three parts - play intro and loop for a while, maybe loop some more after a break, then play through into the coda without looping).
The loop start marker come in where you've a sequence that has an introductory phrase. You can have a part that starts with this intro, then loops. A separate part can start after the intro. So, you can share the sequence between the two parts without having to edit the looped parts for each.
The loop end is something I think is under-used or I don't get the best from myself: I'd like to be able to have a part that didn't loop play from part start past the loop end marker - effectively a coda part - but I don't see how to do this. (So, one sequence, three sections - intro, loop, coda; two or three parts - play intro and loop for a while, maybe loop some more after a break, then play through into the coda without looping).
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
Semantics I'd say... For instance, in Logic if you point the mouse at the top of a midi clip it lets you drag a loop of the clip for however many times you want... if you drag the bottom of the clip it extends the clip container itself. Looped clips can be turned into real clips also with a menu command. And of course "split" cuts the midi clip into 2 "unique" pieces. So I guess this is a non-issue based on what this item is called... not it's function.
Last edited by DHR53 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
I still don't think splitting something should result in 2 of the same item... with different loop locators. Not what I would expect: ?:
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