Polyphonic Guitar to MIDI VST/AU "MIDI Guitar"- BETA TEST

[Daggilarr]

I am using logic on an iMac. I tend to use the MG stand alone routed to the DAW as logic cannot route midi out of an audio channel, so placing plugins in sequence is not possible, if I do use MG as a plugin I have no midi editing potential.

[Daggilarr]

I have made some progress with the piano/harpsichord but it is still very temperamental. I did do a bit of a 'rock track' using synths and guitar rig and that stuff it does great

[AdmiralQuality]

Oh and I don't think you should need a compressor. Try it now that you're getting a good signal. MIDI-Guitar seems to compensate for gain automatically, so it's basically its own compressor. Anyway, definitely try it clean before "fixing" something that may not be broken.

This is true MG smooths out the signal characteristics in terms of sensitivity acording to pitch.

Even though TWEAKING is the answer. I've found synths that respond very well with guitar clean signal (NI FM8), others not so quite. I use a free Roland JUNO series VST, which has a nice and warmth vintage sound but it presents some sensitivity problems among the entire pitch scale, low notes, for example requiere more velocity to trigger smooth notes. On the highs is the oposite, less velocity will track better (check out also attack, decay, sustain, release of the preset you're using to get better results). I placed a multiband compressor VST in front of MG input and it solved the problem completely. Sometimes according to the synth you use placing a compressor on the output stage evens and smooths out the results.

According to your interface's specifications you have 2 Hi Z intrument inputs, but I think this have been already solved.

MIDI GUITAR is completely usable, It works, with a few issues but it works. Tweaking will get you to the results. I'm sure JamOrigin is comming with new fixed things and other features.

BTW what DAW are you using?

Instrument has NOTHING to do with it. MIDI is MIDI and some instruments don't interpret it better than others. However, certain parameters of a synth's sound may be more suitable to what you're trying to achieve, attack time and polyphony (number of available voices) in particular. But that's not the instrument's fault, just the patch/program.

As far as the instrument knows, you're playing keyboard. Keys go down with some velocity, then later come back up (also with a velocity value though few controllers send it and few instruments respond to it.) That's all, there's no nuance during the duration of the note (there can be key pressure but MIDI-Guitar doesn't currently send it.)

Once MIDI-Guitar starts supporting multichannel output, one dedicated MIDI channel for each string (which enables the strings to have their own, unique pitch bend instead of all sharing the same bend amount), THEN some instruments will be better than others (or at least easier to set up). But right now, it's acting just like a keyboard controller. Any triggering/tracking issues are MIDI-Guitar, NOT the synth/instrument.

[ariajazz]

I am using logic on an iMac. I tend to use the MG stand alone routed to the DAW as logic cannot route midi out of an audio channel, so placing plugins in sequence is not possible, if I do use MG as a plugin I have no midi editing potential.

Try inserting KORE 2 in plugin (RTAS) mode or some other plugin host type in plugin mode ito Logic so you can place plugin tools in series.

[ariajazz]

In response to Admiral, Either way midi and synth work. These tips have solve me problems and take playability to a next level. The point is that MG makes an audio to midi conversion and is a matter of how MG interprets audio signal pitch and levels and translate them into midi velocities and here is where I've found compressor useful

[AdmiralQuality]

In response to Admiral, Either way midi and synth work. These tips have solve me problems and take playability to a next level. The point is that MG makes an audio to midi conversion and is a matter of how MG interprets audio signal pitch and levels and translate them into midi velocities and here is where I've found compressor useful

The latest version of MIDI-Guitar has a control for controlling velocity sensitivity (and earlier versions weren't really velocity sensitive at all, or at least had a very narrow range). So again, a compressor may be unnecessary as MIDI-Guitar should offer controls to adjust this itself. (Not to mention the destination synth.)

But you suggested that "I've found synths that respond very well with guitar clean signal (NI FM8), others not so quite", which is simply not the case. (I'm not sure what others you're comparing to. Or if you understand how to set the synth's polyphony, envelopes and velocity response for the effect you want.)

I just wanted to point out that synths all respond to MIDI exactly the same. But guitar-only players may not be familiar with the keyboard paradigm. For example, just because MIDI-Guitar sends a note-off, it doesn't mean the note is going to immediately go off on the synth (release time in an envelope describes the time for a note to decay AFTER the note-off has been received). And not all synths are velocity sensitive (and not all patches have velocity sensitivity activated or set to make much of a difference).

It's the patch/programs you may be having trouble with. NOT the synth. Virtually any polyphonic synth should work fine (as almost all softsynths are, even the ones modelling classic monophonic synths typically have polyphonic modes because it's essentially "free" in software). But NOT every patch will work fine. You need to play the sound the synth is set to make. (Like keyboard players do. If there's, say, a slow attack, we'll probably play ahead of where we would if there's an instantaneous attack. Etc.)

[leggie]

WOW! , purchased

Playing Diva strings with s-gear guitar tones bleeding through, don't get better than this

[ariajazz]

I agree Admiral, patches are the issue not the synth itself, they are all the same. Found compressor useful anyway.

[ironhead]

Granted, I have spent a few moments scratching my head, trying to figure out an algorithm that could be used to handle the polyphony vs harmonic overtones problem in this VST

Telenator, that was an interesting post. I think that problem may be incorrectly posed, i.e. it is not possible to decompose a periodic signal into few (1 to 6) complex signals each consisting of many frequencies f1,2*f1,3*f1,...f2,2*f2,...
in a UNIQUE way. I think it has plenty of solutions and uncertainty regarding those signals' spectra and amplitudes. So this app should have problems with constituents' amplitudes, and it does when It detects 2 or 3 notes when in fact there are 6. If so time and tweaking can not fix this; though I may be wrong time will show and in this light your question about the deadline for final release is very important.

I did not see the proof of concept yet. The proof might be an application that takes a WAV file with guitar chords and spends few hours to analyze it and tell what notes are there. This version of the application by itself would have huge value. If anybody have seen this please point out.

[Kaspar]

I did not see the proof of concept yet. The proof might be an application that takes a WAV file with guitar chords and spends few hours to analyze it and tell what notes are there. This version of the application by itself would have huge value. If anybody have seen this please point out.

Perhaps this is something in that direction?
Not perfect though:
http://www.sonicvisualiser.org/

[The Telenator]

ironhead, Kaspar -- yeah, I was going to say more about the actual program and function, but I was being attacked by the trolls that spend almost 24/7 on this and a couple other threads doing about the same. This is Sooo typical of certain KVR threads. You can't ask a question, criticise, speculate if the product will function okay when 'ready' or anything. This trying to control expression and opinions is so outright communist and un-American. KVR has got quite a reputation for this now. Trolls don't understand how foolish it makes them look. I'm sure I'll get slammed for this -- or at very least some insulting smilie, but I'm just NOT having this abuse anymore. These guys aren't security guards for JamOrigin. In fact, it'll end up hurting his business if it keeps up.

Now, Kaspar, not a day goes by it seems that I don't learn about some cool new software. I read a bit on that site and downloaded the sonicvisualiser to check out later.

Also, I was working out how the polyphony might be dealt with in this plug. Assuming it can adequately "hear" a good smattering of overtones for each and every played note, and since every note has overtones of set frequencies, then it could separate these all out, and it would technically be a no-brainer as to which notes within the chords or clusters are being played. Same as always in computers -- it's just math.

Proper detection, as you guys started in with earlier, is the thing that makes or breaks it. If even the faintest overtones (which are basically there, even if only your dog could tell you) can be graphed then BINGO! The gnarly issue with guitars will probably always be getting all needed frequencies INTO the software program solidly. Can't zero-crossing anything if it's just not there or detectable. Cheers!

[AdmiralQuality]

These guys aren't security guards for JamOrigin.

Funny, you're the one here acting militaristic and pointing fingers accusing others of being "communist" and "un-American". (Is your name McCarthy, by any chance?)

And I'm not sure what the issue you guys have is. It's doing a GREAT job of figuring out chords. That's what it's already successfully DOING. Maybe it's just your playing or your rig that's not up to snuff, as the rest of us aren't having that particular problem. (Other areas like rapid triggering are where improvement can be made.)

As for understanding how it works, nobody cares if YOU understand. You're not the developer, you're just some pushy loudmouth who thinks only he has a right to an opinion. Ironic, YOU'RE the one who's attempting to shut down anyone who dissents with YOUR infallible opinion. You're the rudest person I've seen on this board in a LONG time.

[Gamma-UT]

...but I was being attacked by the trolls...

This is one of those irregular verb things isn't it?

I engage in discourse; you attack; they troll etc etc.

[AdmiralQuality]

...but I was being attacked by the trolls...

This is one of those irregular verb things isn't it?

I engage in discourse; you attack; they troll etc etc.

Exactly.

[ariajazz]

Troll (Internet)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about internet slang. For other uses, see Troll (disambiguation).

In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3] The noun troll may also refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."