Berlin Modular (ancient thread)
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- KVRist
- 415 posts since 17 Oct, 2006 from Franche-Comté
Many thanks for this historical art that motivate and hope.
Imac M4 24" under Sequoia 15.7.1, D.P. 11.35 & Kontakt 8.7.2 _ Gibson ES 295 & Explorer _ FilterBank2 Sherman & PolyEvolver Keyboard _ Altiverb 8_ Explorer Loïc Le Pape
https://loiclepapesteelguitars.com/
https://loiclepapesteelguitars.com/
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- KVRist
- 31 posts since 11 Aug, 2010
you have no idea how mouth watering that soundsUrs wrote:So Berlin Modular would become a conceptual marriage of Diva with modular style patching like ACE & Bazille.
there's really no proper solution for that kinda thing as we speak, to my knowledge at least. reaktor is cool and all but you can't abuse and feed everything back like bazille. and all the other modular vsts just dont sound right. you'd have to go into max/msp or even kyma for that kinda thing which basically means becoming a programmer (really doesn't match with my ambitions). and the berlin modular sounds like it could cover some beautiful middle ground.
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- KVRAF
- 24411 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Sorry, I will disagree and point out VAZ Modular.ctrls wrote:and all the other modular vsts just dont sound right.
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- KVRAF
- 1895 posts since 13 Oct, 2002
Totally. Even though I own a license to all of their products, this is the kind of attitude that makes me want to just give Urs & Co. more money. Can you imagine what kind of tools we would have if everyone had this attitude? Maybe companies need to realize that there is glamour in stability and reliability.Urs wrote:Yes, fixing old bugs and niggles takes time, it costs a lot of money, updates don't create as much revenue as new stuff and it's a tedious and draining process. That's why many companies don't do it. They just keep the bugs and let you live with it. They even fade sucked dry products out off the market. Just so. But we're different. We said "hey, let's do this". We've collected every bug report that we could get hold onto, and we've desected hundreds of parts of code to make it better - for all plugins, even 7 years old freeware. It's a question of attitude.
That's why some consider us one of the best companies around. YMMV.
- Urs.
Really? "Urs wrote:In the meantime, just like ACE, we would release Bazille as its own product and make its price (or part thereof) deductible towards Berlin Mqodular - if ever finished
"? Like you have ANYTHING to be embarrassed about? Like we've completely exhausted all the possibilities of the tools you've already provided us and we have nothing more to do than impatiently wait for your next big thing? 
Take what time you need and follow what paths you see fit. You, I and I'm sure many others are on a creative journey and I am as happy to fund yours as others fund mine...
I can only hope our paths keep crossing for some time to come.-
- Banned
- 147 posts since 4 Feb, 2012 from Carolina Beach
Some unfinished business:
First and most important -- bmrzycki, I read your apology and somewhat dodgy explanation of how you arrived at feeling justified to accuse me, and I accept both. Thank you.
TomTwohy -- In your "From my perspective, this fellow is trying to cope with a limited budget and a lot of needless pride. A tradition as American as apple pie . . ," it may interest you to know that I am merely in the States this year to record certain artists and relax on certain Southern beaches; I am no American citizen. Further, my requirement that softsynths should be more reasonably priced at approximately $100 USD is based on recently changed market factors and much more the fact that, quite rightly, many top firms are holding to this sum: Cakewalk's Z3TA+2, Arturia's entire line of softsynths, SonicProject's OP-X and OP-X Pro II, Waves new Element, Steinberg's recent release, and many more. I wisely limit my 'palette' as an artist; therefore I have recently decided to consider price as one of several factors. I assure you it has nothing to do with such things as 'limited budgets' or 'needless pride'. While I probably should be flattered that you appear so interested in my personal life, I suggest that in the future you'd be wiser to keep to your own business. I find it mad and foolish also to judge another man's motives, especially lacking any facts.
EvilDragon -- Although I've always taken note of your knowledge and advice in the time I've been about various forums, I will have to disagree with you this time. I left off a purchase of Arturia's SEM V Oberheim clone when I learned it requires a dongle for non-internet recording PCs, but I immediately took the other Oberheim, the OP-X Pro II. This proved an even better choice. Even every patch is pure golden. I also bought today the Z3TA+2. This new Z3TA release is simply incredible; as good as the older version was, the new is improved in almost every area. Even though I'm primarily a guitarist/vocalist when it comes to performance, I have been playing synths since their very beginning. I know a top design when I hear one.
Bazille went through my file shredder on Monday afternoon. To me, the appeal of Bazille was that it seemed rather primitive, a one-pager, parts missing as well, drab in colour. It charmed me. When I discovered that it was due to be all 'souped up' and then priced alongside Diva, this would not do. Although I remain grateful I have got a few hours to audition it, I lost interest when I learned the details and can't devote another minute.
ACE still meets all of my requirements and will remain on my list. I am up to my eyeballs in virtual analogue overkill these days, and I like ACE because I could easily make it sound quite digital if I wanted. This is why I purchased Z3TA instead -- solidly digital yet far easier to programme in its current edition. I may take a return look at this ACE when I reassess my instruments next year.
Alas, Lady Diva, as I said before, has her excessive consumption. I am most impressed by her lush, full and sweeter sounds. I have missed this high-quality sweetness, not having played an Oberheim in years! Try as I did taking the OP-X's patches that were most demanding, even tweaking them further, I could not get my CPU higher than 30% and never a drop out. As much as I still like Diva, I believe it is untrue to claim the sound of this synth is the most heavenly or beyond comparison. The OP-X may fall below the radar of most people; however, it is every bit as sweet and just as thoughtfully crafted to mimic analogue. They have gone so far as to copy the slight variance that was always found in these pre-Curtis chips. Every voice when set to identical parameters sounds ever so slightly different from the next, if one truly listens carefully.
Finally, Urs -- Terribly sorry you returned from having internet vacation to be caught in the cross fire or, better, returned to step right in the feces on this thread. My decision, also, that some synths are unreasonably priced was a decision that coincided with my demo of your best synths and had nothing to do directly with u-he. If I may say one last thing before I end my 'experience' with u-he -- an important bit of advice -- please take your forum over to your own website. I understand the economic savings here, but you are bound to lose customers by staying. Look back -- all of what you call 'this shit' started when I, as a protential customer, asked a very innocent question. I was immediately jumped on and certain others went on like it was business as usual. If someday I actually owned Bazille and had an important question, I'd be damned if I would EVER return here for help.
If a true 'little chap' such as Frits Neilsen at Zynewave, maker of the very beautiful and intelligently designed Podium DAW, can afford to have a full forum at his website, then surely you can too. You and your staff can quickly remove rude, deliberately mean or trolling members, and, further, the atmosphere will not be polluted, keeping things mature and focused on the matters at hand at all times. I came here because I had no other choice. But there are some I know who won't, no matter what. Most experienced players and recording types would agree with me that the behaviour on many dozens of threads here is nothing short of insulting and disgraceful.
Sincerely, I do wish you and your gang at u-he all the very best. Thank you and Cheers!
First and most important -- bmrzycki, I read your apology and somewhat dodgy explanation of how you arrived at feeling justified to accuse me, and I accept both. Thank you.
TomTwohy -- In your "From my perspective, this fellow is trying to cope with a limited budget and a lot of needless pride. A tradition as American as apple pie . . ," it may interest you to know that I am merely in the States this year to record certain artists and relax on certain Southern beaches; I am no American citizen. Further, my requirement that softsynths should be more reasonably priced at approximately $100 USD is based on recently changed market factors and much more the fact that, quite rightly, many top firms are holding to this sum: Cakewalk's Z3TA+2, Arturia's entire line of softsynths, SonicProject's OP-X and OP-X Pro II, Waves new Element, Steinberg's recent release, and many more. I wisely limit my 'palette' as an artist; therefore I have recently decided to consider price as one of several factors. I assure you it has nothing to do with such things as 'limited budgets' or 'needless pride'. While I probably should be flattered that you appear so interested in my personal life, I suggest that in the future you'd be wiser to keep to your own business. I find it mad and foolish also to judge another man's motives, especially lacking any facts.
EvilDragon -- Although I've always taken note of your knowledge and advice in the time I've been about various forums, I will have to disagree with you this time. I left off a purchase of Arturia's SEM V Oberheim clone when I learned it requires a dongle for non-internet recording PCs, but I immediately took the other Oberheim, the OP-X Pro II. This proved an even better choice. Even every patch is pure golden. I also bought today the Z3TA+2. This new Z3TA release is simply incredible; as good as the older version was, the new is improved in almost every area. Even though I'm primarily a guitarist/vocalist when it comes to performance, I have been playing synths since their very beginning. I know a top design when I hear one.
Bazille went through my file shredder on Monday afternoon. To me, the appeal of Bazille was that it seemed rather primitive, a one-pager, parts missing as well, drab in colour. It charmed me. When I discovered that it was due to be all 'souped up' and then priced alongside Diva, this would not do. Although I remain grateful I have got a few hours to audition it, I lost interest when I learned the details and can't devote another minute.
ACE still meets all of my requirements and will remain on my list. I am up to my eyeballs in virtual analogue overkill these days, and I like ACE because I could easily make it sound quite digital if I wanted. This is why I purchased Z3TA instead -- solidly digital yet far easier to programme in its current edition. I may take a return look at this ACE when I reassess my instruments next year.
Alas, Lady Diva, as I said before, has her excessive consumption. I am most impressed by her lush, full and sweeter sounds. I have missed this high-quality sweetness, not having played an Oberheim in years! Try as I did taking the OP-X's patches that were most demanding, even tweaking them further, I could not get my CPU higher than 30% and never a drop out. As much as I still like Diva, I believe it is untrue to claim the sound of this synth is the most heavenly or beyond comparison. The OP-X may fall below the radar of most people; however, it is every bit as sweet and just as thoughtfully crafted to mimic analogue. They have gone so far as to copy the slight variance that was always found in these pre-Curtis chips. Every voice when set to identical parameters sounds ever so slightly different from the next, if one truly listens carefully.
Finally, Urs -- Terribly sorry you returned from having internet vacation to be caught in the cross fire or, better, returned to step right in the feces on this thread. My decision, also, that some synths are unreasonably priced was a decision that coincided with my demo of your best synths and had nothing to do directly with u-he. If I may say one last thing before I end my 'experience' with u-he -- an important bit of advice -- please take your forum over to your own website. I understand the economic savings here, but you are bound to lose customers by staying. Look back -- all of what you call 'this shit' started when I, as a protential customer, asked a very innocent question. I was immediately jumped on and certain others went on like it was business as usual. If someday I actually owned Bazille and had an important question, I'd be damned if I would EVER return here for help.
If a true 'little chap' such as Frits Neilsen at Zynewave, maker of the very beautiful and intelligently designed Podium DAW, can afford to have a full forum at his website, then surely you can too. You and your staff can quickly remove rude, deliberately mean or trolling members, and, further, the atmosphere will not be polluted, keeping things mature and focused on the matters at hand at all times. I came here because I had no other choice. But there are some I know who won't, no matter what. Most experienced players and recording types would agree with me that the behaviour on many dozens of threads here is nothing short of insulting and disgraceful.
Sincerely, I do wish you and your gang at u-he all the very best. Thank you and Cheers!
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- u-he
- Topic Starter
- 30188 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
No worries, we've studied the option of hosting our own forum. No big deal, we even have our own server and stuff.
However, looking at similarly sized companies who have their own forum outside of KVR is a little frightening. Their forums generate only a tiny fraction of the throughput that we get here. We even have rough numbers from others who had a forum here first and then went on to do their own forums. It's a bad idea.
In general however, bmrzycki and EvilDragon have been very helpful members of this forum for years. I've reread things a few times, and even had a native English speaker check it out. I think you've overreacted, but I'm happy for you that you found your tools for the price you see fit.
Cheers,
Urs
However, looking at similarly sized companies who have their own forum outside of KVR is a little frightening. Their forums generate only a tiny fraction of the throughput that we get here. We even have rough numbers from others who had a forum here first and then went on to do their own forums. It's a bad idea.
In general however, bmrzycki and EvilDragon have been very helpful members of this forum for years. I've reread things a few times, and even had a native English speaker check it out. I think you've overreacted, but I'm happy for you that you found your tools for the price you see fit.
Cheers,
Urs
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- KVRAF
- 1888 posts since 13 Aug, 2011 from Berlin
No problem! There's always direct customer support at u-he dot com. Quick, friendly and helpful. Most of the time.The Telenator wrote:If someday I actually owned Bazille and had an important question, I'd be damned if I would EVER return here for help.
(We're only human... lalala...)The Telenator wrote:Sincerely, I do wish you and your gang at u-he all the very best. Thank you and Cheers!
Honestly, I wish you the same!
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- Banned
- 147 posts since 4 Feb, 2012 from Carolina Beach
I didn't actually know the stats on forums in-house or abroad, except many of my favourite firms host their own. Does it take 'quality traffic' into account? Because you'll have blokes and little kids in and out who haven't a prayer of paying any serious quid for an item.
I'm not criticising EvilDragon's comments at all. No, my post to him was only that we disagreed on which synth would be considered better for certain purposes, likes, etc. This just happens to be the only time in memory that we have different thoughts on the matter. I was simply explaining a choice I made.
Last, yes, I agree that I might have over-reacted; however A.) being accused of a serious theft, and B.) having to endure the kind of abuse that is so common in KVR threads is more than enough to send anyone off. In fact, did I see a temporary 'banned' under EvilDragon's name the other day? The problem here is that half the time the mods ban the wrong person and the instigator walks away Scot free. Go scan many diverse threads and I expect you'll see. I mean, just have a look! People will pitch a fit in many threads the minute you post an opinion they disagree with. And so forth and so on. Personally, I take false accusations rather seriously, you see. I use KVR to search out and suss out information. I need to find a different site for that, because I can't stand for seeing others take the flaming and abuse either when I encounter it -- almost every time I visit KVR forums.
Now, I need to defeat the 'notify by mail' feature so I won't wonder if it's a general post or inquiring of me directly. So thanks again. Cheers!
I'm not criticising EvilDragon's comments at all. No, my post to him was only that we disagreed on which synth would be considered better for certain purposes, likes, etc. This just happens to be the only time in memory that we have different thoughts on the matter. I was simply explaining a choice I made.
Last, yes, I agree that I might have over-reacted; however A.) being accused of a serious theft, and B.) having to endure the kind of abuse that is so common in KVR threads is more than enough to send anyone off. In fact, did I see a temporary 'banned' under EvilDragon's name the other day? The problem here is that half the time the mods ban the wrong person and the instigator walks away Scot free. Go scan many diverse threads and I expect you'll see. I mean, just have a look! People will pitch a fit in many threads the minute you post an opinion they disagree with. And so forth and so on. Personally, I take false accusations rather seriously, you see. I use KVR to search out and suss out information. I need to find a different site for that, because I can't stand for seeing others take the flaming and abuse either when I encounter it -- almost every time I visit KVR forums.
Now, I need to defeat the 'notify by mail' feature so I won't wonder if it's a general post or inquiring of me directly. So thanks again. Cheers!
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- KVRAF
- 24411 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Hey, I quite like OP-X Pro II as well! Those presets are GREAT when you need to just plug and play, or are in a hurry for practice or a gig featuring some classic songs. That alone is worth the price of admission!
However, while being great, it is not as great as Diva is (IMHO, YMMV) in overall sound design flexibility and quality of filters especially. Diva's GUI is a lot easier to get around with, OP-X has way too many "hidden" stuff on too tiny GUI elements (like draggable labels? That was not a good design decision...). I mean, both definitely have their uses.
Also, nothing prevents you to use Diva in "draft" or "fast" mode, and render in "Divine". You get much lower CPU load that way.
)) ! I don't think it was me, perhaps it was lapsus oculus?
However, while being great, it is not as great as Diva is (IMHO, YMMV) in overall sound design flexibility and quality of filters especially. Diva's GUI is a lot easier to get around with, OP-X has way too many "hidden" stuff on too tiny GUI elements (like draggable labels? That was not a good design decision...). I mean, both definitely have their uses.
Also, nothing prevents you to use Diva in "draft" or "fast" mode, and render in "Divine". You get much lower CPU load that way.
Huh?! O_o; I was never notified of this by any mods via PM, and I browsed and posted KvR freely yesterday afternoon (in fact I also used PM to buy Uhbik from a KvR member, thanks viudu (still waiting on codes from u-he, thoughThe Telenator wrote:In fact, did I see a temporary 'banned' under EvilDragon's name the other day?
)) ! I don't think it was me, perhaps it was lapsus oculus?-
- u-he
- Topic Starter
- 30188 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Telenator,
You weren't accused of theft. You were corrected on your assumption that you would become a victim of our copy protection if you continued to use our alpha software. You (and somebody else) did however, and then you made a big hoohaa out of this and started all sorts of baseless accusations and fairly uninformed suggestions. You actually became quite derogative towards us, our products and what not.
We on the other hand don't assume anything good or bad about anybody who seeks our help in forums. Hence we see no need to move away from KVR to gain any sort of control over the demographics of our audience. Because quite frankly, no-one who's a troll here can be stopped from signing up on any other forum. Hence your argument is baseless.
I'm not interested in any further unsolicited advice and baseless opinion.
You weren't accused of theft. You were corrected on your assumption that you would become a victim of our copy protection if you continued to use our alpha software. You (and somebody else) did however, and then you made a big hoohaa out of this and started all sorts of baseless accusations and fairly uninformed suggestions. You actually became quite derogative towards us, our products and what not.
We on the other hand don't assume anything good or bad about anybody who seeks our help in forums. Hence we see no need to move away from KVR to gain any sort of control over the demographics of our audience. Because quite frankly, no-one who's a troll here can be stopped from signing up on any other forum. Hence your argument is baseless.
I'm not interested in any further unsolicited advice and baseless opinion.
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- Banned
- 147 posts since 4 Feb, 2012 from Carolina Beach
Hey! EvilDragon -- You caught me before I even got to my account settings. Banned, honestly, I am so close to 100% positive and it may not have been yesterday but just before. You know, they pull that temporary thing on any whim, and if you don't bother a post in a few days, you may not even know of it! My son had it happen! It was indeed a screen name I know well and in addition from the Reaper forum. Again, can't swear to it but it brings to mind no other name. I will think on this.
Ah, the OP-X Pro II. I fully expected the most common response but you touched on another. I agree the layout could be better; however, it so reminiscent of various features of Oberheim's OB series oddly morphed with some Prophet 5 that I feel enough at home. I expected you would warn that no novice need apply -- unless planning to live by the patches of others alone. This is truly a programmer's synth. One really has to know what one is doing. I relish it, though. I can't wait to do more with it. The factory patches are wonderful, every one, but I'm hunting some sounds. The basses, strings and the general sweetness I find unsurpassed. This was what the hardware version was best known for also. I'm amazed at your assessment of the filters, for without them just as they are the Oberheim sound would not be the classic it is. What I'm trying to say is that the shortfall you see is the very thing that makes those OBs so memorable! Remember, it is the failings of analogue that creates the magic in many cases.
I do love the Diva as well and studied how to cope with the heavy draw on the CPU, just as you said. Unfortunately, always having to be mindful and have one eye on the mode of every patch is a large part of what kills it for me. It interferes with my creativity and spontaneity, like having to constantly look over my shoulder whilst taking a walk in a sunny and beautiful park. Another thing was I could never get used to seeing a chunk of Minimoog sitting next to the DX from another synth, as if someone took a chainsaw and cut a few old synths to bits, then took a spanner and bolted them together. It looked somewhat odd to me.
Ah, the OP-X Pro II. I fully expected the most common response but you touched on another. I agree the layout could be better; however, it so reminiscent of various features of Oberheim's OB series oddly morphed with some Prophet 5 that I feel enough at home. I expected you would warn that no novice need apply -- unless planning to live by the patches of others alone. This is truly a programmer's synth. One really has to know what one is doing. I relish it, though. I can't wait to do more with it. The factory patches are wonderful, every one, but I'm hunting some sounds. The basses, strings and the general sweetness I find unsurpassed. This was what the hardware version was best known for also. I'm amazed at your assessment of the filters, for without them just as they are the Oberheim sound would not be the classic it is. What I'm trying to say is that the shortfall you see is the very thing that makes those OBs so memorable! Remember, it is the failings of analogue that creates the magic in many cases.
I do love the Diva as well and studied how to cope with the heavy draw on the CPU, just as you said. Unfortunately, always having to be mindful and have one eye on the mode of every patch is a large part of what kills it for me. It interferes with my creativity and spontaneity, like having to constantly look over my shoulder whilst taking a walk in a sunny and beautiful park. Another thing was I could never get used to seeing a chunk of Minimoog sitting next to the DX from another synth, as if someone took a chainsaw and cut a few old synths to bits, then took a spanner and bolted them together. It looked somewhat odd to me.
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- KVRAF
- 24411 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
I had luck to play on an OB-X and OB-Xa that a pal of mine has, and OP-X is close but the resonance is not really there yet. I mean, of course each individual analog synth even if it's the same model will sound slightly different, but here the difference was quite obvious on first listen, after matching parameters. And if you listen carefully on Peter's demos, it's also possible to discern the differences between his reference OB-X and OP-X Pro. However, for 98% of usages, it's close enough. It's the elusive 2% that always end up taking the most of your CPUThe Telenator wrote:I'm amazed at your assessment of the filters, for without them just as they are the Oberheim sound would not be the classic it is. What I'm trying to say is that the shortfall you see is the very thing that makes those OBs so memorable! Remember, it is the failings of analogue that creates the magic in many cases.
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- KVRAF
- 1888 posts since 13 Aug, 2011 from Berlin
Oh, really? I thought I sent them out yesterday. Resent. Please write me an email if it doesn't get to you again.EvilDragon wrote:...(in fact I also used PM to buy Uhbik from a KvR member, thanks viudu (still waiting on codes from u-he, though
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- KVRist
- 293 posts since 18 Jul, 2003
I'd love to hear what u-he can do if they decide to tackle the Oberheim sound!EvilDragon wrote:I had luck to play on an OB-X and OB-Xa that a pal of mine has, and OP-X is close but the resonance is not really there yet. I mean, of course each individual analog synth even if it's the same model will sound slightly different, but here the difference was quite obvious on first listen, after matching parameters. And if you listen carefully on Peter's demos, it's also possible to discern the differences between his reference OB-X and OP-X Pro. However, for 98% of usages, it's close enough. It's the elusive 2% that always end up taking the most of your CPUThe Telenator wrote:I'm amazed at your assessment of the filters, for without them just as they are the Oberheim sound would not be the classic it is. What I'm trying to say is that the shortfall you see is the very thing that makes those OBs so memorable! Remember, it is the failings of analogue that creates the magic in many cases.