DRM for preset banks?

[hakey]

I suspect that part of the thinking behind the Dark Zebra was that it was a way of offering a soundbank with de facto copy protection.

[hakey]

Presets are a convenient resource for musician, but making them hermetically sealed is just... silly.

What are you ranting about.....

Isn't he just... post can't be read without scrolling.

[Nanakai]

Some ppl buy, some ppl steal. Its never going to change and you cant stop it.

And we'll never stop people nicking cars, but I still lock mine when I park it.

Some degree of copy protection for commercial soundbanks would be better than none.

Nope. Protecting a $20,000 car with a $100 lock makes good economic sense. Protecting a $20 soundset with a $X/n copy protection scheme does not. Besides that, with a car, you're safeguarding against someone depriving you of resources. Copy protection doesn't necessarily do this, as someone who uses your stuff without paying may not have bought it otherwise.

[padillac]

I wonder how much of a problem this is in practice. How many users pay for a software license, but steal preset banks? I think someone using an illegal copy of your preset bank is probably using it on an illegal copy of the software.

[Ingonator]

Tone2 is using watermarks for their soundbanks too and for commercial Alchemy banks you seem to need a key file for each bank.


Ingo

[hakey]

we'll never stop people nicking cars, but I still lock mine when I park it

Nope. Protecting a $20,000 car with a $100 lock makes good economic sense. Protecting a $20 soundset with a $X/n copy protection scheme does not. Besides that, with a car, you're safeguarding against someone depriving you of resources.

Haha, my car isn't worth anything like $20,000. It's much closer to the value of your lock.

And I'm talking about soundbank copy protection as a feature of a synth - so the $X/n cost doesn't apply. It may be that such copy protection isn't possible, or is too complicated or burdensome from the pov of the dev to be worth implementing, but that's a slightly different argument.

As for the suggestion that soundsets are too cheap to bother - if I worked at it full time, a decent soundset of, say, 100 well crafted, interesting patches would probably take me 4 to 6 weeks. And I'd want £3000 to £4000 return on that to make it worthwhile. If copy protection were the difference between the enterprise being viable or non-viable, between break even and living on cold beans, then copy protection would definitely make sense.

Speaking from my own perspective, the lack of any copy protection is a significant enough disincentive to stop me from trying to sell my stuff (a minor tragedy for all discerning synthesists. )

[Kriminal]

A watermark doesnt stop theft or distribution, it only increases the chance of finding out where it came from.

[hakey]

One idea - let commercial soundbanks be stored, encrypted, in a separate location to the factory/user presets. Commercial presets can be edited and saved in the same location but can't be copied out. Add key file activation for newly purchased soundbanks.

[ThomasHelzle]

And the user gets a pair of black glasses so he can't see the settings.
Brilliant!

Cheers,

Tom

[hakey]

And the user gets a pair of black glasses so he can't see the settings.
Brilliant!

No, the user stills sees the settings and could even open two instances of the same plugin and *laboriously* copy patches parameter by parameter - which should prove laborious enough to make copying full soundbanks more hassle than it's worth.

Brilliant!

[Nanakai]

No, the user stills sees the settings and could even open two instances of the same plugin and *laboriously* copy patches parameter by parameter - which should prove laborious enough to make copying full soundbanks more hassle than it's worth.

Brilliant!

This is what I've been doing for years to improve my understanding of synthesizers. I find that it's actually quite worth the hassle, though I'm not doing it for nefarious purposes.

Keyfiles and serials are as easy to distribute as the presets themselves. C/R systems require maintenance, making them impractical to set up for presets alone. A dongle might help protect against illegal distribution, but also against sales, and they are expensive as well. What kind of trouble should your customers have to go through to use your presets? Well, much of your competition thinks they should have to go through none. Not only is it economically impractical, it's going to turn your customers off.

I'm sorry that the facts crush your dreams of making some money from sound design. I'm not sure what lengths you expect Urs should take, though, as it just makes 0 sense for him to do anything. There are a few people on these forums who have already taken the chance, despite how easy it is to steal their work, and while I have no idea whether they're living in palaces full of riches or in a refrigerator box under a bridge, they are trying. Maybe you can't make a living, but if your sounds are good, you will make some income. If you're interested, just go for it. What do you really have to lose?

[hakey]

I'm sorry that the facts crush your dreams of making some money from sound design.

Don't be silly. Honestly, it's you lot that are losing out.

I'm not sure what lengths you expect Urs should take

I don't expect anything of him (where did I say I did?). I was merely expressing a point of view - I'm not looking to persuade or change anyone's mind (unlike some).

There are a few people on these forums who have already taken the chance

Good for them. Really.

If you're interested, just go for it.

I'm not. Not worth the gamble, *for me*.

What do you really have to lose?

Time, hair, sanity...

[hakey]

the user stills sees the settings and could even open two instances of the same plugin and *laboriously* copy patches parameter by parameter - which should prove laborious enough to make copying full soundbanks more hassle than it's worth.

This is what I've been doing for years to improve my understanding of synthesizers. I find that it's actually quite worth the hassle

You've sat down and transcribed from one plugin to another a full bank of 100+ patches, parameter by parameter, patch by patch.

My simplest patches involve adjustment to upwards of 50 different parameters...

[Nanakai]

Not entire banks, no. Just the ones that interest me.

Some of them are colossal failures, of course. It's all part of the learning process.

[Urs]

With watermarking one can blacklist the leaked preset banks in future updates of the plugin.

And btw. vice-versa.

(That said, while we do have means to do things, I won't speak publicly about them. We are contemplating to offer copy protection for 3rd-party soundbanks from maybe next year)