A new competitor to Uhe Diva has arived!!!

[jalcide]

If we can get hold of a Minimoog that sounds *that* aggressive, then we'll happily spend some time on an alternative model for Diva as well. Uhm, if this is generally considered a desirable Minimoog sound.

Yeah, nice, exaggerated seems to be a trend even in hardware. I.e., the new Prophet 12 (which looks and sounds amazing). Dave Smith really turned up the dial on all the things "character" and "grit." Also, Waves Element, which I love, seems to be very exaggerated (almost harsh at times) in its harmonic makeup.

A hearty thumbs up from me.

That direction would parallel current EDM trends, too. E.g., even Trance is getting "filthed up" in small doses and starting to take on a more gritty vintage analog sound -- the cross-pollination of genres.

(you should model that Prophet 12 the new "Character" section with, "Drive, Hack, Decimation, Girth and Air." )

[Howard]

Sub Phatty arriving soon - worth "dissecting" its Multidrive, I reckon.

[Chopper]

I do agree with Urs definition of "analogue sound"... my SH 09 is still a reference to me, not because of any agressivity, but because of the smooth roundness. yes, the filter is an important part, but getting the oscillator right is what gives that, in my opinion... I looooove the korg MS20 plugins, for exemple, as the filter suits some of my needs... but if i need it fuller, i feed it with DIVA as an input... for me, it's not so much the filters, more what you would filter...

[EvilDragon]

Oh right, absolutely. From an industry category standpoint, or a college, circuit-modeling is probably to be found in a "DSP" course.

And that is EXACTLY what I was talking about.

Circuit modeling is using DSP to accurately (to some extent) model the behavior of a real analog circuit. As Urs said, it's a subset of digital signal processing. That was all I said. It is not a completely different technique. Which means, you can do circuit modeling prototyping in Reaktor, as well.

[hakey]

@chilly7

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=376397

[jalcide]

Oh right, absolutely. From an industry category standpoint, or a college, circuit-modeling is probably to be found in a "DSP" course.

And that is EXACTLY what I was talking about.

Circuit modeling is using DSP to accurately (to some extent) model the behavior of a real analog circuit. As Urs said, it's a subset of digital signal processing. That was all I said. It is not a completely different technique. Which means, you can do circuit modeling prototyping in Reaktor, as well.

Component-level circuit modelling is just not possible in Reaktor. Reaktor is entirely a visual, modular, node-based environment based on low-level DSP objects. There's no programming or even a scripting language inside it for which to write any code that would simulate, say, voltages across a resistor. I don't think it can be done with hundreds of little math-operand nodes wired together. If it were possible, it would be outlandishly byzantine and impracticable to even create the discharge simulation of a single capacitor (as one example). Voltage and current modelling just ain't gonna happen in Reaktor without a programming language.

The fact that the *final output/result/transform* of a voltage-oriented, circuit modeled method ends up in DSP-land is a given, and in the spirit of this discussion, does not make it a "DSP-based" approach.

[Kriminal]

Competition is good. Everyone has to up their game and keep prices reasonable. Money talks.

[EvilDragon]

The fact that the *final output/result/transform* of a voltage-oriented, circuit modeled method ends up in DSP-land is a given, and in the spirit of this discussion, does not make it a "DSP-based" approach.

Yeah, right. Everything that as an end result uses DSP blocks (and in digital world, that's EVERYTHING), is a DSP approach. It is not impossible to emulate a capacitor discarge in Reaktor Core. In fact, I'm pretty confident that's exactly what was done for Monark.

[hakey]

It is not impossible to emulate a capacitor discarge in Reaktor Core. In fact, I'm pretty confident that's exactly what was done for Monark.

iirc, there was an early ensemble that implemented Newtonian laws of motion to model a bouncing ball, with parameters to change the strength of gravity and the elasticity of the ball.

No reason why other laws of physics couldn't also be modelled.

[whyterabbyt]

And what makes you think that circuit modeling itself does not use DSP?

Because of the name, itself: "DSP" (Digital Signal Processing). DSP needs code/computation engine, data memory, program memory and input/output functions to connect with the outside world.

Analog circuits need and use none of that. They use purely electrical components (and not for computation code execution in the digital sense): transistors, capacitors, resistors, etc. -- it's all about the flow of voltages.

They're two very different approaches. Right?

okay, so that covers DSP versus analog circuits.

however the question was DSP versus circuit modelling.

What part of modelling or simulating the signals within an analog circuit in the digital sginal domain do you think is not included in the realm of 'digital signal processing'?

[nix808]

figuring out which tubes to use?

[whyterabbyt]

figuring out which tubes to use?

but the internet is all tubes.

[nix808]

Tell that to Kemper!

[olikana]

Sub Phatty arriving soon - worth "dissecting" its Multidrive, I reckon.

btw i preordered one too....can't wait to have it here and play with it.
all those knobs (cc),compact clear interface,packed with features....for the price was simply irresistable.

[Howard]

btw i preordered one too....can't wait to have it here and play with it.
all those knobs (cc),compact clear interface,packed with features....for the price was simply irresistable.

Me too!