A new competitor to Uhe Diva has arived!!!

[hakey]

Isn't the whole point of 0df that it accurately models non-linear (feedback) behaviour?

Unless I'm missing something, there'd be nothing to gain from a 0df filter with no non-linearities.

[Ch00rD]

btw Urs has nothing to worry about (as if he was), this is good for a Reaktor ens but no competition for Diva in the slightest. For example I just tried one of my filter droppers from Diva in Monark, the resonance response is nice and smooth but doesn't go all the way down like it does in Diva - it cuts out when you get to the bottom end.

However it does hopefully open up a lot of possibilities for Reaktor programming provided people can reuse the modules.

LOL..I read this wrong...

I read "It's nice and smooth but doesn't go all the way like Diva does"

Well you know what they say about Divas

What, that's it typically *harder* to make them come down than the average lady?

[chilly7]

Anyway I have it - K9 package just arrived!!

cool!!!

[chilly7]

@Urs: Because it's a reaktor ensemble you can just open it up and take a peak at how it's done. Perhaps there is something to learn? Or not. Never know.

Cheers!
bManic

+1

[Urs]

Isn't the whole point of 0df that it accurately models non-linear (feedback) behaviour?

Unless I'm missing something, there'd be nothing to gain from a 0df filter with no non-linearities.

Non-linearity is about distortion. It's about those several transistors or opamps that are used in analogue circuits, each of them distorting the signal a little.

Zero delay feedback is about the placement of resonance frequency relative to cutoff point, and behaviour of resonance with fast cutoff modulation.

For an accurate analogue model you will want both.

[olikana]

Isn't the whole point of 0df that it accurately models non-linear (feedback) behaviour?

Unless I'm missing something, there'd be nothing to gain from a 0df filter with no non-linearities.

first of all the objective of 0dff is to eliminate the smearing ("plasticky coating" as referred to in other thread ) when tightly modulating cutoff with high resonance. that is what bugs me the most about old dsp filters. (obviously it never bugged u as u was always happy with softsynths...but personally it makes me cringe).

the accurately placing the non linearities thanks to 0-dff is another step from what i understand...infact other developers to save on cpu are dividing the 2 steps (creating firstly a 0dff linear filter and then taking compromises on the nonlinearities with approximation and oversampling).

edit : urs beat me to it, refer to his answer...he knows best

[hakey]

Non-linearity is about distortion.

In a general (mathematical) sense doesn't non-linear refer to functions in which the output is fed back into the input - hence, they are non-linear?

[hakey]

obviously it never bugged u as u was always happy with softsynths...

Show me where I said that.

(By 'u' I take it you mean 'you'.)

[EvilDragon]

Non-linearity is about distortion.

In a general (mathematical) sense doesn't non-linear refer to functions in which the output is fed back into the input - hence, they are non-linear?

Not necessarily. A function can be non-linear without any kind of feedback at all. Waveshaper is a non-linear element for example, and it doesn't do any feedback.

[hakey]

hmm, yeah, a bit of googling shows my error.

[hakey]

That said, isn't the 0df bit also an attempt to model a nonlinear system, albeit a different kind of nonlinearity to the waveshaping that Urs was talking about?

[audiojunkie]

hmm, yeah, a bit of googling shows my error.

Don't feel bad, most of what you guys are talking about is over my head anyway. I'm just on the ABCs of understanding synthesis. I've been a "Patch Kiddie" for years.

--Sean

[xh3rv]

That said, isn't the 0df bit also an attempt to model a nonlinear system, albeit a different kind of nonlinearity to the waveshaping that Urs was talking about?

Technically I don't think 0df *has* to model nonlinearities, but it's very different in theory and computation from moving the non-linearities inside the feedback loop as necessary to model analog hardware.

[hakey]

Technically I don't think 0df *has* to model nonlinearities, but it's very different in theory and computation from moving the non-linearities inside the feedback loop as necessary to model analog hardware.

What I meant was that a system in which the output is fed back into the input is nonlinear, and that's what's happening with the 0df filter, no?

Feedback is nonlinear.

[nix808]

perhaps hakey,
there is also any exponential function,
or also a random curve,
but, perhaps feedback is non-linear,
although a tap delay will decay in linear fashion