Shreddage 2 v2e Update - Now available!

[bigjerome]

well,I have to say I'm not an alienated "Shreddage 2" user.

Happy to hear that. You probably use it differently than I do.
Are we done yet?

[metalheart]

Maybe you've to learn something from people who have posted their great works (with Shreddage 2) everywhere.They also probably use it differently than you do.

[bigjerome]

All the high gain stuff? Not how I use it.
I'm done with this discussion with you.
Thanks for the times!

[zircon]

No need for hostility folks...

Now believe me, I read literally every word of every post on this forum, as well as our Facebook, Twitter etc., and I very much want this to be a great update. As Iain noted the pinch harmonic thing specifically IS a case where I want to get new recordings. Bigjerome you're right that we can simply eliminate an RR and copy another one, but the truth is that the problem was much worse in the beta and we already did a pass of deleting takes that were pitched wrong. So, rather than band-aid it more, I would prefer to get all new proper recordings to fill in the gaps.

Regarding gliss down samples - isn't this basically doable right now by using portamento, except not sustaining the target note? I've done this in some of my own demos. Let me know what you mean about that.

Prerecorded trills: This is on the list of "would be nice" features. It would basically require the updated articulation mapper I mentioned so we have a place to put them.

Random natural vibrato: Hmm, this is an interesting idea. I don't think there is any natural vibrato while playing a guitar, BUT pro guitarists do often add it constantly and fluidly, which is I think what you're talking about. I'll experiment with this and see if we could create some kinda cool algorithm for it.

Bug w/ the wrong note in soundoutsource's midi example: Noted, will be fixed. Looks like G6 on String 3.

[metalheart]

Since shreddage and shreddage 2 were mainly made with high gain stuff in mind,I suppose,maybe you haven't made the best choice.

Better luck next time!

[metalheart]

hi Zircon,sorry,I didn't mean to be controversial.

for the gliss samples yes I use portamento,but is there a way to gliss up\down the last note in a riff?

[Aloysius]

BUT pro guitarists do often add it constantly and fluidly, which is I think what you're talking about. I'll experiment with this and see if we could create some kinda cool algorithm for it.

That's it. Yes. Thank you.

[WarAxe]

exist a possibility to playing direct 3rd (Harmonizing)
to make a key switch or a Midi CC function
in shreddage 2 in double track mode like this..

Guitar1 left:
C D E F G A B C
Guitar2 right:
E F G A B C D E

it's only an idea it will be nice..

[stratodyne]

I would love to see more chords other than rudimentary power chords. Perhaps even a "chord-only" mode that enables use of the full keyboard explicitly for chords. Either that, or improved support for custom user chords. Sometimes when writing my own chords, the output can sounds a little wonky

[soundoutsource]

I would love to see more chords other than rudimentary power chords. Perhaps even a "chord-only" mode that enables use of the full keyboard explicitly for chords. Either that, or improved support for custom user chords. Sometimes when writing my own chords, the output can sounds a little wonky

Perhaps an option that adjusts velocity of subsequent notes based on picking direction:

Upstroke = higher strings have more velocity, low strings have less.
Downstroke = opposite of upstroke

[SSN688]

Thank you zircon and Iain for all your hard work!
We, or at least most of us, really appreciate it.
Here are some questions and suggestions.

For fret noise samples, is it possible to have the engine trigger them automatically, say, when non-legato notes of non-adjacent frets are played subsequently?

Can there also be multiple velocity layers for full chokes? Chokes right now kinda sound unnatural if I play them quickly and consecutively. Would be nice to have different degrees of harshness of chokes based on velocity. Also, for the sake of realism, playing a full choke should automatically mute all sustained notes.

* Adding a control to customize max pitch bend (wheel) range. Right now it's fixed, in 1.1 you will be able to go +12 / -12 semitones.

This sounds nice. Would be great though if I can set the pitch bend to only affect the lowest note so I can use it to do unison bend. Yes I know there is CC 11 for unison bend but I always find it more intuitive to do all the bending on the pitch bend instead of having to use another CC.

* User speed control of portamentos. This SHOULD be doable but will require a bit of experimentation into Kontakt's time machine 2 algorithm.

Glad to see this improvement. Would be nice to have the option that the engine automatically adjusts the speed of portamento based on a velocity range, e.g., from vel 0 to 20 >> slowest to fastest portamento.


Another feature that I think Shreddage really needs and would love to see in the 1.1 update: any possibility of strum keys that up-strum or down-strum the held notes with strum time based on velocity?


Not a priority, but I have one last interesting idea.
Most guitar vsti or sample libraries out there sound way too clean to me and lack that grittiness in real guitar playing.
One thing I absolutely love about Shreddage 2 is the option to add an extra pick noise before the actual played note.
This feature adds so much realism but is so rare to find in any other guitar sample libraries, the only one I remember having it is electri6ity, though in which the pre-pick phase is very subtle and hardly audible.

Therefore, it would be great if this feature can be brought even further, for instance, by adding more samples of greater variety of pre-pick noises or allowing the user to have even longer pre-pick delays with longer pre-pick noises/scrapes.

[metalheart]

Thank you zircon and Iain for all your hard work!

Not a priority, but I have one last interesting idea.
Most guitar vsti or sample libraries out there sound way too clean to me and lack that grittiness in real guitar playing.
One thing I absolutely love about Shreddage 2 is the option to add an extra pick noise before the actual played note.
This feature adds so much realism but is so rare to find in any other guitar sample libraries, the only one I remember having it is electri6ity, though in which the pre-pick phase is very subtle and hardly audible.

Therefore, it would be great if this feature can be brought even further, for instance, by adding more samples of greater variety of pre-pick noises or allowing the user to have even longer pre-pick delays with longer pre-pick noises/scrapes.

I quote you...great suggestions

[zircon]

exist a possibility to playing direct 3rd (Harmonizing)

So basically, keyswitch or MIDI CC-controlled transposition? This would probably make more sense as an assignable MIDI CC and should be doable.

I would love to see more chords other than rudimentary power chords. Perhaps even a "chord-only" mode that enables use of the full keyboard explicitly for chords. Either that, or improved support for custom user chords. Sometimes when writing my own chords, the output can sounds a little wonky

At least for 1.1, doing pre-recorded chords is not something we are looking to do yet; this would add an extreme amount of recording and editing time. The library would also get a lot 'heavier' and I don't want to re-do what other libraries (like Prominy) have already sampled really thoroughly.

That being said I do want to improve user chords / strumming. To start with, the new fretting/string selection engine should be smarter and thus make any chords you play sounds better simply because the frets and strings used will be more natural. A "strum" mode would take a lot of experimentation but at a bare minimum could have a feature such as adjusting the volume of strummed notes so that they are not all played at max. I would be interested in hearing more ideas and suggestions for strumming modes/features.

Perhaps an option that adjusts velocity of subsequent notes based on picking direction:

Upstroke = higher strings have more velocity, low strings have less.
Downstroke = opposite of upstroke

So in other words, this would be automatically done if the script detects (or 'knows') that a chord is being played? i.e. If we are in chord mode, and you play 6 notes with a downstroke, the higher strings will have less velocity automatically, lower strings will have more.

For fret noise samples, is it possible to have the engine trigger them automatically, say, when non-legato notes of non-adjacent frets are played subsequently?

If you think about it, this is actually a rather difficult problem. It's easy for the script to know if the current played note is non-legato and non-adjacent to something previous. However, the fret noise sample is supposed to be played BEFORE the new note is triggered. The script can't know, before you play a note, whether it's going to be non-legato and non-adjacent. That would be impossible.

Therefore the only other option is to delay the current note to play the fret noise sample, and THEN play the new note. But this introduces delay/lag which is a pain. That's why the solution we went with was simply having it as user-triggerable.

Can there also be multiple velocity layers for full chokes? Chokes right now kinda sound unnatural if I play them quickly and consecutively. Would be nice to have different degrees of harshness of chokes based on velocity. Also, for the sake of realism, playing a full choke should automatically mute all sustained notes.

Full chokes muting other notes -> no problem, good idea.

When you say degrees of harshness, do you mean more muted vs. less muted chokes? This would be fairly easy to record and edit, the question is where to actually put it on the keyboard. Right now, velocity corresponds to neck position. One option is to have an assignable MIDI CC scroll through choke positions, though that's a little clumsy. What do you propose?

This sounds nice. Would be great though if I can set the pitch bend to only affect the lowest note so I can use it to do unison bend. Yes I know there is CC 11 for unison bend but I always find it more intuitive to do all the bending on the pitch bend instead of having to use another CC.

In other words, you would like a switch that makes the pitch wheel act like the assignable MIDI CC for unison bending. This is probably doable, I will see what I can do.

Glad to see this improvement. Would be nice to have the option that the engine automatically adjusts the speed of portamento based on a velocity range, e.g., from vel 0 to 20 >> slowest to fastest portamento.

Again this boils down to a mapping issue. It is possible for a user to assign portamentos only at velocity 1, for example, in which case the script would have no way of knowing what speed value to use. What about a MIDI CC?

Another feature that I think Shreddage really needs and would love to see in the 1.1 update: any possibility of strum keys that up-strum or down-strum the held notes with strum time based on velocity?

We did something like this with Plectra Series 3. This might be getting old to say, but with S2, this does again present a mapping problem Velocity -> strum time in and of itself is not hard. But how will it know what velocities to play, and in turn, what articulations to use?

Therefore, it would be great if this feature can be brought even further, for instance, by adding more samples of greater variety of pre-pick noises or allowing the user to have even longer pre-pick delays with longer pre-pick noises/scrapes.

I agree that this feature has worked really well. I'll see if we can expand on it.

[SSN688]

Therefore the only other option is to delay the current note to play the fret noise sample, and THEN play the new note. But this introduces delay/lag which is a pain. That's why the solution we went with was simply having it as user-triggerable.

Understood. Though I just had another idea.
Why not have a system for user to choose a preferred fret via midi CC or keyswitches, so that the system will try to play notes from that fret as much as possible, then to have the system automatically triggering fret noises whenever the user changes the preferred fret?

When you say degrees of harshness, do you mean more muted vs. less muted chokes? This would be fairly easy to record and edit, the question is where to actually put it on the keyboard. Right now, velocity corresponds to neck position. One option is to have an assignable MIDI CC scroll through choke positions, though that's a little clumsy. What do you propose?

The position of the choke can be automatically set to either the position of the last note before it or, if the above preferred fret system is applied, the preferred fret/neck position.

In other words, you would like a switch that makes the pitch wheel act like the assignable MIDI CC for unison bending. This is probably doable, I will see what I can do.

Thanks!
Just out of curiosity, does the unison bending in Shreddage 2 cross-fade with recorded samples or it simply bend the lowest note using kontakt?

Again this boils down to a mapping issue. It is possible for a user to assign portamentos only at velocity 1, for example, in which case the script would have no way of knowing what speed value to use. What about a MIDI CC?

Hm...this does seem kinda tricky...
I guess if portament articulation is set to a single velocity value rather than a range, there is no other way but to set the portamento speed to one single default value....
How about having multiple ways of controlling portamento for the user to choose from? So that for those who set the portamento articulation to a single velocity value, they can choose to control portamento speed using midi CC other than velocity, and vice versa.

Velocity -> strum time in and of itself is not hard. But how will it know what velocities to play, and in turn, what articulations to use?

In the case of a down-stroke, the velocity received by the strum key should apply to the note of the lowest string, with slightly lower velocity for each following string. Vice versa for up-strums. As for articulation, I can think of two ways of implementation. The first one is to use the velocity applied to the strum key to determine the articulation based on the user's velocity mapping. The articulation would then be applied to every note in the chord. The second approach is to have many strum keys such that there are a pair of down and up strum keys for each articulation. Personally I prefer the second approach, but I understand that doing so would use up lots of keys and thus may not be practical.

[zircon]

I've now begun working on the update in earnest. It might even be possible for us to do a public beta test! We'll see what happens. Anyway I've had this thread and several others open. So far...

* Added pitch bend range knob.
* Added portamento speed control. This is about 80% working, should get it done tomorrow.
* Added min and max threshold controls for release noises.
* Reworked the save/load preset system to work with external files. Much more flexible now.
* Tweaked the articulation selector script which should eliminate some weirdness (like extra picks not working at certain high velocities).

More to come.