A new competitor to Uhe Diva has arived!!!

[chilly7]

not exactly the same but with more little tweaks i'm sure i could match them to the point u wouldn't even notice the switched instrument.

My bad, you're right, I've just fooled around with it a bit, with that 85% in mind, and indeed they are almost the same.
Though both still have some advantages and disadvantages(Diva has barely few), so diva exceeds.
Though if you have Reaktor then you can make some interesting things with Monark, like use it as a filter or modulate filter with some drum loop.

Year, i think Reaktor technology is nothing less then amazing!!!

[olikana]

Huh? What does the resolution of the encoder used have to so with it? The modulation depth parameters in Diva actually have a 'normalised' range from -120.00 to +120.00 shown on the GUI, and thus can show 24001 discrete steps, but have an even higher resolution internally.

thanks captain obvious. i'm not blind u know.
ok the word "resolution" was inappropriately used.. but is it impossible to say anything on kvr without someone nitpicking on every single word all the time ? (and we are not even in Instruments...)
i was just correcting my own "no more than 85%" (to "no more than 70%") as i realized the max mod depth value on the knob was 120 point(00) and not 100 point(00) (and 85 out of 120 was obviously not 85%..but 70%..so wanted just to correct myself there). that's all it was about. and was talking directly to flux and i'm sure he understood what i meant .

the Minimoog has a modulation range of 5 octaves, so I'd go for a value of 72.00 - indeed, just a bit below 80.

this instead is useful .
on trying to really match them,while adjusting other parameters, i got down to increasingly lower md values ..so yeah starting from 72 would have been better for sure (infact settled not much higher than that ).
this is the closest i got to that monark fluxmind preest...and i think it's close enough ...not perfect but frankly couldn't bear listening to that bitchy nasty sound a second longer.
first plays monark then diva
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/503 ... aclose.wav

i might repeat the experiment with a more pleasing sound knowing already i can make them sound as identical as 2 minimoogs can be (as long as FM and feedback load are not involved)

[fluxmind]

In Bass example first part sounds more open and I like it more, I've run into this quite a lot while A/B'ing them, probably because Monark's oscillators sound brighter to me
Here are an examples:
Monark first in both
Saw
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/2/9/3 ... %20Saw.mp3
Square
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/2/9/3 ... Square.mp3

Did someone ask for "muffle" feature ?

[chk071]

Is it ok to do Monark - Diva comparisons now?

[bmrzycki]

Is it ok to do Monark - Diva comparisons now?

It'd probably make more sense to do such comparisons in an agnostic forum like Instruments. It seems to be a sensitive subject though...

[chk071]

Right, actually the topic title of this already screams for comparisons.

[pdxindy]

Is it ok to do Monark - Diva comparisons now?

It'd probably make more sense to do such comparisons in an agnostic forum like Instruments. It seems to be a sensitive subject though...

I think the comparisons are interesting... but this thread is about Monark and does not belong in the u-he forum.

[bmrzycki]

Right, actually the topic title of this already screams for comparisons.

I agree with you there. What I don't understand is why this thread is in the u-he forum. Maybe Urs @ messe has been too busy to do a little housekeeping around here.

[Urs]

Is it ok to do Monark - Diva comparisons now?

It'd probably make more sense to do such comparisons in an agnostic forum like Instruments. It seems to be a sensitive subject though...

I think the comparisons are interesting... but this thread is about Monark and does not belong in the u-he forum.

Indeed. I guess it shows that Monark can sound quite nice, which is good for Reaktor users. But then again, like with Zebra, building Diva in Reaktor is closer to a lifetime achievement than to making music. Has nothing to do with u-he.

We have nothing to worry about, but ongoing borderline posts make me want to move this thread to forums where it's forgotten about quicker.

[pdxindy]

Or just lock it... There are a couple threads already in Instruments with similar comparisons

[olikana]

Monark's oscillators sound brighter to me
Here are an examples:
Monark first in both
Saw
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/2/9/3 ... %20Saw.mp3
Square
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/2/9/3 ... Square.mp3

Did someone ask for "muffle" feature ?

the 24db filter in diva has a different range it seems....goes lower with the cut off ...but also its maximum value seems lower...indeed cutting a bit too many high frequencies even when fully open(probably worth giving it more headroom at the top)
for the previous bass example was completely irrelevant cos u could just set in diva the cutoff higher than the one in monark to make them match in brightness (which i did in the 2nd attempt i posted above and sure i could have got them to 1:1 with some patience)
instead here obviously with fully open filter can't make diva's cutoff go higher to match monark's full value. so we have a problem.
if you switch diva's ladder to the 12db version the sound appears immediately less muffled(as there's less steep cutting on the high freqs and some still get through)
and when comparing squares you must consider that the square wave in diva should be morphed to around 7.10 to match it.
here my saw and square comparisons with diva switched to 12db and square morphed to 7.10. monark plays first then diva
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/503 ... arison.wav
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/503 ... arison.wav
still a bit muffled but much closer .
and btw if you put 12db in diva and LP1 in monark....they will sound identical..which to me is further indication that the difference lay with the two different 24dbs ranges rather than the oscillators. if there was a bypass for the filters for both we'd know for sure.

Or just lock it... There are a couple threads already in Instruments with similar comparisons

apart from the fact that there aren't. this last page is very useful. most of the monark vs diva debate has been based on subjective nonsense (and most monark bandwagon jumpers). here is hard facts. audio comparisons speak mroe than a million words. and i think it can help Urs improve his already great product. Monark studied Diva for over a year after all.
in this particular issue we are looiking at......a nice bright saw can be important(who doesn't love a nice sawtooth?). whether the muffled one in diva is caused by the oscillator or by the 24db filter cutting a bit too much even when opened (like i believe is the case)...it needs to be looked into imo.

[Urs]

Well, when Diva came out, the main criticism about here sound was that she sounded too bright compared to the gear she was modeled on. People have requested a muffle function ever since. Just check the threads on Gearslutz.

It's quite funny that Monark suddenly makes people cater towards the opposite, innit?

That said, we'll sure have a look at Monark - seems to be a great achievement. But we'll also surely have a look at some other synths which might contribute a bit more to Diva than just another flavour of Mini

[pdxindy]

Or just lock it... There are a couple threads already in Instruments with similar comparisons

apart from the fact that there aren't. this last page is very useful. most of the monark vs diva debate has been based on subjective nonsense (and most monark bandwagon jumpers). here is hard facts. audio comparisons speak mroe than a million words. and i think it can help Urs improve his already great product. Monark studied Diva for over a year after all.
in this particular issue we are looiking at......a nice bright saw can be important(who doesn't love a nice sawtooth?). whether the muffled one in diva is caused by the oscillator or by the 24db filter cutting a bit too much even when opened (like i believe is the case)...it needs to be looked into imo.

If Diva is modeling the behavior of the Minimoog Urs is using as a reference, then why should it be changed to match Monark? Either it is accurately modeling the synth he aimed at or it isn't. If it is, leave it alone. If it isn't then more closely match the original Minimoog. Monark has nothing to do with it.

[olikana]

monark aside, imo an ideal software filter should never cut below 15k when fully open . i realize many analog synths did......but i hoped diva to be the spirit of analogue without the restrictions of it ;P
if someone wanted a more muffled sound he could have lowered the cutoff himself, i'm sure even some of the dinosaurs at gearslutz could have managed that.
in terms of innovation not sure there are any in monark but it does 2 things better than any softsynth i have
1)the FM (and that apparently is nothing new considering it's not one of the locked modules and might be available in reaktor libraries to analyze)
2) the nice sounding overload/feedback combo ..not using it much to be honest (i'm more of an audio rate distortion or pedal on the output person)..but never had anything like this so might have to adapt to it .
btw did you have a chance at messe to check the overload features of the sub phatty?

[Ch00rD]

[...] i'm sure even some of the dinosaurs at gearslutz could have managed that. [...]

[...] btw did you have a chance at messe to check the overload features of the sub phatty?

Hey! The only dinosaur in this context is Diva herself!

Btw, I did check out the SP's new overdrive, and while I do like it very much, I was still a bit disappointed. I want more!! It only goes as far as Black Sabbath, while I want it to go way beyond Slayer.