Satin before / after

[75ips]

Hi!

Would you guys mind running "try_original.mp3" through Satin real quick? It's just an old sample from the 80s - but due to its nature (smooth vocals, sharp drums, with quite a bit of distance between them) - it's able to offer a pretty good clue as to what each tape plugin does.

Original:
try_original.mp3

After ReelBus:
try_jeroen.mp3

After FerricTDS:
try_ferric.mp3

Thank you!

[djanthonyw]

If possible, I think it would be better to upload the uncompressed wav files since you're asking for further processing to occur.

[Urs]

Sorry, we're on leave till Monday, and we're not mixing engineers. Putting Satin on a mix is almost pointless IMHO. Its real strength is putting it on groups or individual channels.

We will prepare demo projects shortly, and they'll be appropriate.

[Frantz]

Putting Satin on a mix is almost pointless IMHO.

Would you care to explain why?

[Urs]

Putting Satin on a mix is almost pointless IMHO.

Would you care to explain why?

Well, it certainly does *something*, but it is not how you'd use it. In our demo projects we have a Satin on each channel, or on submixes. When we now put a Satin on master, its effect is barely audible. But switching off all Satins on the individual channels makes a vast difference. Individual Satins does more for mix than putting a Satin on an otherwise Satin-less mix.

The point is, if you have Satins on individual channels you can mix louder. It simply creates more headroom. You get a whole lot of desirble properties out of this, and when you bypass the tapes the mix seems flat and lifeless.

A mix can be coloured and maybe glued a bit, but it is nowhere near the same ballpark as in a proper mixing setup. Hence I'm afraid that if we ran an mp3 through Satin, Satin would be judged by an example that isn't what she's meant for.

- Urs

[Frantz]

That makes sense Urs. Thanks.

[Bronto Scorpio]

Yeah, Satin is really good at taming "popping" sounds. Snares with heavy transients are a good example, Satin can tame the transient while still remaining the punch. This makes it possible to mix the snare way louder and therefore easier.

It does not make that much sense to apply it only to the mix buss. It's best used subtle (or not so subtle) on individual channels, like most plugins that apply some sort of saturation (all the console/tape/whatever stuff).

The grouping functionality makes it very easy to apply global changes nontheless.

Cheers
Dennis

[bmanic]

Kind of like the Slate VTM. It's very subtle (unless you drive it on purpose to break completely) on a master but once you have it on many different tracks it really makes quite a large difference.

This is why I like Reelbus so much. It gives us some very different tape flavors, some of them not subtle at all. These algorithms are awesome for tape "abuse" and can even be used creatively during breakdowns / drops on the master.. or why not throughout the whole song if that's your thing.

Similar transparency to VTM can be achieved with the "Professional" tape type in Reelbus.

The tape example I posted here many years ago from the Telefunken M15 had people complaining that it was way too subtle and many could not even hear a difference between the tape transfer and the digital version. So a good quality tape machine with proper calibration and high quality tape IS very transparent. That's just how it is. I fear the myth of "tape warmth and saturation" has clouded peoples expectations a lot, especially the less experienced home audience that don't know what to listen for (subtle transient taming). They expect an instant "fixing" or "magic bettering" of the mix. Most of the blame falls of course on the constant hype of the industry and also the misunderstand of the legendary mixing/mastering guys says "it instantly improves X and Y of the song". Their "big improvement" might be way too subtle for the ordinary music producer to even notice!

Cheers!
bManic

[75ips]

Still, putting Satin on the whole thing would be a nice way to tell what it's all about. It's clearly audible in both ReelBus (like bManiac pointed out) and FerricTDS.

[sascha]

Well, I just came from my Italian next door, including flushing Pinot Grigio and two Sambuca (my wife didn't want hers) in a hurry, as the kids needed sleep, so nothing processed from me right now...

But I can clearly hear that the processed files are way too overheated, almost squashed (especially the ReelBus version). And of course, their RMS should match the uncompressed file for a fair comparison.

As Urs already pointed out, an mp3 is far from ideal. On a *master* bus, any tape sim should be used only in subtle amounts, and then the old rule 'garbage in, garbage out' applies the most.
With individual tracks, all these subtleties add up to something more obvious, so it's a piece of cake to sort it out then.

On a master bus, a good tape effect is more *seen* than actually *heard* as the transients got softened, which is the most prominent effect, and you'd immediately spot it on the peak meters. One can go further than that, but you'd end up with cooking stuff way too hot. Or, it's just too 'different'. We've had demos on our Messe machines where we also strapped Satin across the master bus, but these were dialed in for 'maximum wow', not necessarily for clarity. Or, what would you say if I give your tune a Satin treatment set to NAB eq, for instance? That was ok for Messe, concerning the environmental noise, but it's far from 'adequate'. I could easily add more low-end oomph and treble compression, but we'd end up with a caricature of your song.

I hope you don't find that cowardish. I'm generally eager to process such things (especially right now... ), but have patience. We'll thrill early enough

[75ips]

On a master bus, a good tape effect is more *seen* than actually *heard* as the transients got softened, which is the most prominent effect, and you'd immediately spot it on the peak meters.

Thanks for replying, but what's with that whole emperor's new clothes thing? After all, you're making your music for your audience, right? So if they can't hear it, what's the point?

[Urs]

On a master bus, a good tape effect is more *seen* than actually *heard* as the transients got softened, which is the most prominent effect, and you'd immediately spot it on the peak meters.

Thanks for replying, but what's with that whole emperor's new clothes thing? After all, you're making your music for your audience, right? So if they can't hear it, what's the point?

Your peaks go down - you can up the master fader.

[75ips]

Your peaks go down - you can up the master fader.

But surely tape is more about mystique, spirituality and the 70s than mere loudness?

[Urs]

Your peaks go down - you can up the master fader.

But surely tape is more about mystique, spirituality and the 70s than mere loudness?

Sure. You do get distortion that hopefully adds a fair bit of pleasant excitement (unless you overdose). And it also "evens out" a bunch of transients, hopefully without mudding them down.

You can also switch the noise reduction off for playback and get a good vocal compressor.

You can drive individual channels heavily, to get *that* snare or *that* bass.

Tape is not just some distinct form of sound. It offers a whole category of effects in itself, with a broad palette of options to choose from. Which is why Satin has become a playground of "everything tape", including delay and flanging, and customisable settings for recording and playback. It covers a lot of the things the guys did in the olden days, less glueing snippets of tape.

[ksandvik]

Add quick tape speed:ups (fast forward with playback) and slowdowns to Satin and I'm approaching nirvana.