Anybody get good results with KH Disperser?

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I'm demoing this effect and I think I will purchase it [EDIT: just bought it]. I did some experiments with APFs in the past, but this sounds differently from what I can achieve by using IIEQ Pro or BiFilter 2 (I can't get that "boomy" effect with the first, while I obtain a very subtle effect with the latter)... I think the killer idea of this plugin is the control on the order of the all pass filter.


I'm thinking about using Disperser on midrange-y sounds to unmask the bass component, so I can cut them higher using an hi-pass filter and keep (or even enhance) the impact of those sounds, while making headroom for the low-end... It's just an idea I want to experiment with, I'm not sure of the results I'll get.


In relation to the higher peak values using Disperser, I had mixed results while trying the demo version; anyway I think this could be explained because of a property of all pass filters: they make asymmetric waveforms more symmetric, but they also make symmetric waveforms more asymmetric. I think this is a good article on the subject (have a look in particular at the "failure" chapter):
http://www.tonnesoftware.com/appnotes/a ... lpass.html

The key passage is:
If the waveform to be corrected has no even-order components (unlikely in practice) and so is symmetrical top-to-bottom in the first place, then the use of an allpass network might not be beneficial
Well... what if your sound is a square wave (or any sound with a spectrum dominated by odd harmonics)? :)

Sometimes you can indeed get less headroom by using an all pass filter, so I think it may not be always the best tool for this purpose if we are talking about synths...
However that's just one of the possible uses of an all pass filter; I also won't mind too much a little increasing in the crest factor if that's the compromise required to unmask some frequencies better, I could need a little bit more of compression on that sound (or I may just lower it, depending on the context) but it could be still the best solution for that sound.



I think Disperser is a useful tool.

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Dr.Gunjah wrote: Can you give me a hint about how I have to set disperser to fatten a bassdrum without losing headroom?
It is indeed not always super easy to find the correct settings, but I'll chime in with an example here. It's got 4 hits with the same kick drum, first without Disperser and then with 3 increasing levels of "amount".

* Pinch is set to zero (which I recommend unless you want to do more weird effects focusing around a specific frequency)

* Cutoff is at ~70Hz. I recommend setting that somewhere around where the main "body" of the kick is, but experimenting is key. Lower cutoff gives more streched bass "boom", while higher gives a bit more punch but also some zapping in the higher frequencies. All depends on taste.

According to Voxengo SPAN the peaks of the hits are (in order):
1. -0.3dB
2. -1.2dB
3. -1.7dB
4. -2.3dB

The effect does depend a bit on the input, so you will not get same results on all kicks. However, in our testing most give some amount of reduction (a bit depending on settings). In some cases it can also increase though.

Sound file:
http://files.kilohearts.com/kickdisp.wav

Hope this helps!
kiloHearts Developer

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Tricky-Loops wrote:
sinkmusic wrote:Isn't it a bit like the Cerberus Epoch ?
Can we do similar things with ToneBooster Flx (or even VarietyOfSound Fix) ?
I am not a phase expert, and this KhZ Fx teases me ;)
Phase seems to be th new black :D
The Disperser works with Allpass filters while the Epoch works with Comb Filters...but both change phases...
You are right that they are different: Disperser uses all-pass filters to add different delay to different frequencies. Epoch's phase rotator is linear, it rotates every frequency by the same amount (which is why Epoch uses a separate delay). So they shouldn't sound at all alike. I haven't tried Disperser yet, but I'm impressed with the prepared audio examples I've heard.
welcome to epoch
enjoy volt

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TheoM wrote:I think it needs to have an uber version with a bit more control, cause i was actually getting a big improvement in the drums but i couldn't fine tune it enough to be 100% happy with it
The "amount" knob can technically not be in finer steps than it is now. However, holding down shift will give you more exact control over the frequency slider. Don't know if it helps you, but thought I'd mention it!
kiloHearts Developer

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If I'm getting this right, the spreading of the frequencies is effectively smearing the transient, and that's why the peak level decreases.

Not sure I dig it. I'd say it gets less punchy, more boomy. The punch (in spl) coming from a phase aligned transient is lost, and those 'zaps' are introduced. I'm not seeing/hearing the benefit.

And with regards to the previous discussion about plugins with allpasses; Love Philter includes an allpass ;)

Still a big fan of Faturator though, that plugin is killer. Use it regularly.

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TheoM wrote:With extra stuff i meant there must be extra knobs and settings that can do extra THINGS that you plan for a big version, surely?
No big features planned for Disperser itself. We have some ideas for minor additions, but nothing decided.
kiloHearts Developer

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audiosabre wrote:Not sure I dig it. I'd say it gets less punchy, more boomy. The punch (in spl) coming from a phase aligned transient is lost, and those 'zaps' are introduced. I'm not seeing/hearing the benefit.
The zaps can be avoided by having the cutoff low enough to not effect the mid/high frequency content. That will just push the bass back giving more boom without losing the top punch (but possibly less bottom punch). Depending on how you want your transients it might be a good thing or not. :)
kiloHearts Developer

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@dentoid: thanks for chiming in. I tried disperser on more stuff and got some good results now. Bad ones too, it seems like soft clipping behind disperser is a bad idea. Howsoever, it's a very helpful tool which can turn "meh" bassdrums into "yay" bassdrums, so I bought it :)

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Dr.Gunjah wrote:@dentoid: thanks for chiming in. I tried disperser on more stuff and got some good results now. Bad ones too, it seems like soft clipping behind disperser is a bad idea. Howsoever, it's a very helpful tool which can turn "meh" bassdrums into "yay" bassdrums, so I bought it :)
It usually plays along pretty nicely with compressors though. :)

Glad you got it working for you!
kiloHearts Developer

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Just wanted to bump this thread, because I really fell in love with this little tool. I had a lot of unfinished tracks with bassdrums, that were ok, though they were not able to keep up with professional releases. Well, most of those tracks are still unfinished, but the bassdrums sound awesome now that I used disperser to shape them :D
More important, they sit much better in the mix now, so I can make my tracks louder overall, if needed. Highly recommended to any electronic music producer that is not satisfied with his bassdrums.

Cheers,
Doc

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Don't sleep on this just beacause you don't make electronic music. It's unbelievable how it brings anemic kick drums to life. :love:

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