anyone else bummed they didn't get picked to Beta test BitwigStudio?

[LawrenceF]

@ GhettoSynth...

Yeah, agree fully. It just seems really odd to me - or uniquely and aggressively confident - to do that. All of these companies, Steinberg, Presonus, Avid, Magix, Apple, are almost certainly toiling away on what will be viewed in some cases as uniquely clever ideas or twists on old features and you can rest assured that the larger market won't be seeing any of them until they're ready to sell.

Any other strategy seems rather counter productive.

If I was Steiny some of my workshop elves would have been busy ripping anything really cool from the Bitwig show since last summer.

I find it all rather fascinating.

[BDeep]

To clarify the above, it seems pretty illogical to me to give your biggest competitor - Ableton Live? - direct and detailed insight into everything that's coming, for 12-18 months? They're probably already coding "counter measures" as we speak over there... since they kinda know (and have known for some time) exactly what they'll be competing with. Why would anyone do that?

You may have a point, however, the holes in Live that Bitwig is trying to address are for long well known to Ableton. And yet they choose to not do anything with them. It seems to me that it's more to do with design/workflow principles than not being able to do it (although that doesn't explain the PDC issue).
On the flip side, Bitwig pitted themselves directly against Live, and by doing so they know they can't disappoint in a direct comparison to Live. It's nice and all that they may have proper PDC and multiple display support, but there's still a whole lot to be matched. If you're trying to match your v1 software to a well established v9 software, it's not so surprising that it takes them so long to release....
That being said, without any knowledge on what's happening over at Bitwig HQ, they should just bite the bullet. Release a v0.9 for free for a year, get the bugs out and a load of users and then release V1.

[hibidy]

I don't think ableton could care less.

[daExpert]

ok so, we all have seen the horrid track record of this company, we all have the feeling that we will see vanguard 2 before bitwig studio, so my question is, why in hell would anybody want to put themselves through that. i am 110 percent not going to support this company. not today, not tomorrow, not ever. who knows once they release 1.0 how long it will take for 1.0 to reach a stable version. because we all know v1.0 is often so unstable and buggy that it takes 1.5 to reach a stable state. this company lacks serious funding and it shows.

You know that when Bitwig Studio finally comes out, you will try it out AND fall in love with it, along with everyone else on KVR.

[hibidy]

lolz

[ghettosynth]

To clarify the above, it seems pretty illogical to me to give your biggest competitor - Ableton Live? - direct and detailed insight into everything that's coming, for 12-18 months? They're probably already coding "counter measures" as we speak over there... since they kinda know (and have known for some time) exactly what they'll be competing with. Why would anyone do that?

You may have a point, however, the holes in Live that Bitwig is trying to address are for long well known to Ableton. And yet they choose to not do anything with them. It seems to me that it's more to do with design/workflow principles than not being able to do it (although that doesn't explain the PDC issue).

One thing that I think is missing here is whether the perspective of the vocal minority matters much. Maybe it does, I'm not saying that I know. On the other hand, maybe it doesn't matter as much as you think. Maybe Ableton's devs regularly gripe about not begin able to work on PDC and management says "our results indicate that addressing that issue will have negligible affects on our sales, whereas, adding X or Y will increase sales by Z percent, so that's what we need to focus on."

Point being, it's a product management decision. They might be well aware of it AND are able to do something about it but choose not to because, at the end of the day, the viability of the company matters the most and the management might believe that they are doing the best that they can given the information that they have. We, of course, do not have the same information that they do so our viewpoint is necessarily skewed.

TBH, the PDC issue doesn't bother me much in Reason or Live. Granted, I produce at a snails pace, but, am I the customer that they care must about, or is it guys griping about PDC? Which one of us is the "purchasing" majority?

On the flip side, Bitwig pitted themselves directly against Live, and by doing so they know they can't disappoint in a direct comparison to Live. It's nice and all that they may have proper PDC and multiple display support, but there's still a whole lot to be matched. If you're trying to match your v1 software to a well established v9 software, it's not so surprising that it takes them so long to release....
That being said, without any knowledge on what's happening over at Bitwig HQ, they should just bite the bullet. Release a v0.9 for free for a year, get the bugs out and a load of users and then release V1.

I think that's the essence of the the griping about the beta. If they had released a "more" open beta perhaps you would have an army of excited testers using the beta to build their music and ignoring releases from the other guys. You would certainly have testers excited and, even without violating agreements, would generate buzz. If it does as much as the videos imply, and doesn't crash every ten minutes, then those users might deal with the bugs rather than upgrade to the competition. I'm reminded of the super buggy host that comes on CM that is "modular" and how long it existed as a product that was clearly buggy. I can't be bothered to go look, I'm sure someone will fill in the blank for me.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[hibidy]

TBH, the PDC issue doesn't bother me much in Reason or Live. Granted, I produce at a snails pace, but, am I the customer that they care must about, or is it guys griping about PDC? Which one of us is the "purchasing" majority?

Well, considering that the biggest threads (where relevant) are about PDC, they clearly are not listening. They don't even bother to respond.

There are so many people that are like "it will come around" or "perfection takes time" or "think about what the cavemen had to use" (and 600,000 cliche lines) that like you said, the few that gripe don't matter.

For everything bitwig will do better, there will be at least one major counterpart.

[ghettosynth]

TBH, the PDC issue doesn't bother me much in Reason or Live. Granted, I produce at a snails pace, but, am I the customer that they care must about, or is it guys griping about PDC? Which one of us is the "purchasing" majority?

Well, considering that the biggest threads (where relevant) are about PDC, they clearly are not listening. They don't even bother to respond.

There are so many people that are like "it will come around" or "perfection takes time" or "think about what the cavemen had to use" (and 600,000 cliche lines) that like you said, the few that gripe don't matter.

For everything bitwig will do better, there will be at least one major counterpart.

I hear ya, and of course, I risk sounding like a bigger dumbass than I do already, but seriously, I'm not bothered by PDC, or, at least if I am, I don't know that's what's causing any problems. I only have two other hosts to compare it with, cubase and reaper. Cubase is essentially dead to me, I only use it every once in a while and I have no intention of upgrading from version 5.x.

I suspect that the vast majority of customers are in a similar camp. I don't think that Ableton is trying to compete with pros outside of the DJ/Producer circle. I wonder if they think that responding to the gripes will just create a bigger headache.

Perhaps someone can suggest a good way of hearing the PDC issue? What kinds of problems would you expect it to cause?

Ok, never mind, I just read this:

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1263901

Now I know why it doesn't cause me grief.

[trusampler]

Summer Namm 2013 is in July, Bitwig have already mentioned they are working hard on it, and are trying to get it out by the end of this summer, and if not then,in 2013. Namm is pretty damn good time to announce whats coming ,just saying.. think...

To your question, I think everyone and their mama would have liked an invite, but it is what it is, just be happy they are working on it, and as they mentioned are trying to get it to us by the end of summer.


The open API attitude is something I wished the dev's at Presonus would have done, going on 3 years with studio One, and they still have very limited support for controllers.

the bitwig dev's are thinking further along in terms of an open minded daw with controllers and OS's,then any of the other dev's that I've grown to love lately.

NO WE CAN'T WAIT, BUT WE WILL..Now back to the cats!

[VitaminD]

Summer Namm 2013 is in July, Bitwig have already mentioned they are working hard on it, and are trying to get it out by the end of this summer, and if not then,in 2013. Namm is pretty damn good time to announce whats coming ,just saying.. think...

To your question, I think everyone and their mama would have liked an invite, but it is what it is, just be happy they are working on it, and as they mentioned are trying to get it to us by the end of summer.


The open API attitude is something I wished the dev's at Presonus would have done, going on 3 years with studio One, and they still have very limited support for controllers.

the bitwig dev's are thinking further along in terms of an open minded daw with controllers and OS's,then any of the other dev's that I've grown to love lately.

NO WE CAN'T WAIT, BUT WE WILL..Now back to the cats!

Agreed.

Summer NAMM is why I was originally guessing June/July time frame.

However, Some of the beta testers made a couple posts on a bitwig site and showed there was (a couple of months back) still quite a bit left to be developed for 1.0 ....so that is why I corrected my guess to before the end of September. I don't think it will be before the end of June and no later than the end of September. Likely closer to September though is my thinking.. They keep adding nice things to have along the way

Yes, I too think they shouldn't have announced so early. The apple in front of the horse is turning black and fuzzy. But it isn't as if we have no other hosts and plugins to use to make music in the meantime... get to getting, everyone! If some of you spent the time posting cat photos on music, you'd have a hit album by now.

[ghettosynth]

Yes, I too think they shouldn't have announced so early. The apple in front of the horse is turning black and fuzzy. But it isn't as if we have no other hosts and plugins to use to make music in the meantime... get to getting, everyone! If some of you spent the time posting cat photos on music, you'd have a hit album by now.

Good theory, but, I'm really good at wasting time on the internets and I suck ass at music, (see my sig), so, I doubt that I'd have a "hit album." I'll settle for my pointless legacy of verbosity.

[VitaminD]

Yes, I too think they shouldn't have announced so early. The apple in front of the horse is turning black and fuzzy. But it isn't as if we have no other hosts and plugins to use to make music in the meantime... get to getting, everyone! If some of you spent the time posting cat photos on music, you'd have a hit album by now.

Good theory, but, I'm really good at wasting time on the internets and I suck ass at music, (see my sig), so, I doubt that I'd have a "hit album." I'll settle for my pointless legacy of verbosity.

ok.

[trimph1]

Yes, I too think they shouldn't have announced so early. The apple in front of the horse is turning black and fuzzy. But it isn't as if we have no other hosts and plugins to use to make music in the meantime... get to getting, everyone! If some of you spent the time posting cat photos on music, you'd have a hit album by now.

Good theory, but, I'm really good at wasting time on the internets and I suck ass at music, (see my sig), so, I doubt that I'd have a "hit album." I'll settle for my pointless legacy of verbosity.

What?!?!

A lot of what you say makes perfect sense...sheeesh

[ghettosynth]

Yes, I too think they shouldn't have announced so early. The apple in front of the horse is turning black and fuzzy. But it isn't as if we have no other hosts and plugins to use to make music in the meantime... get to getting, everyone! If some of you spent the time posting cat photos on music, you'd have a hit album by now.

Good theory, but, I'm really good at wasting time on the internets and I suck ass at music, (see my sig), so, I doubt that I'd have a "hit album." I'll settle for my pointless legacy of verbosity.

What?!?!

A lot of what you say makes perfect sense...sheeesh

Doesn't make it pointless. Like this entire thread. Seriously, it's easy to get distracted by KVR when I'm in a bad mood. It's been a shitty week, time to start drinking!