Ableton, all plugins cause *automation* pdc issues, very good discussion within.. lots of info!

[C-note]

ok now i *know* you are trolling me. And yes, that's exactly what trolling is. By the way it is by FAR not equal performance on both platforms. It performs at least 2x better on windows.

Far from the truth. I dual boot here and own Logic. Reaper smokes it in performance. Obviously, I don't run Logic in Windows 7, but I have run Reaper on both platforms, same plugins on both, and yes, I know what I'm talking about, as my IT career is old enough to drink now here in the States (21+ years.) If you were to dual boot your MBP so all things were equal, you'd see the same performance in Reaper on both platforms, provided the plugins you use performed the same in the Mac version as they do in the Windows version, which clearly isn't always the case. Some developers are better at developing for Windows, others for OS X.

Anyway, we get it - you don't like Reaper, which is fine. I certainly won't try to sell you Reaper, though other Forumites here might.

As long as we're sharing opinions, however, Logic IMO is as counterintuitive an application as has ever been released on the Mac, which I credit to the fact that much like Internet Explorer (which Microsoft built on top of NSCA Mosaic, which they bought from NSCA), Logic is a purchased product that Apple acquired from EMagic.

My hope for Logic is that Apple rewrites it from the ground up for Logic X and makes it a true Apple application rather than the hodgepodge it is now.

I have owned Reaper since the 0. days but if we are talking in IT terms, Reaper would get a 1 or 2 NPS in Midi, Workflow and UXD compared to a 9 or 10 for a Logic or Cubase. The reason Reaper is "improving" so fast (as Reaperites like to claim) is that the original systems analysis by Justin and team left huge GAPs in functionality with regards to midi, workflow and UXD. The aforementioned items Awareness and Implementation GAP scores leave much to be desired if Logic or Cubase are used as a current state. Reaper is a baby compared to Logic or Cubase.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[ghettosynth]

Wow my friggin ableton live pdc topic had to turn into a reaper one.





I'm getting so over this .. Going to ask a mod to clean up all the off topic stuff. Thanks.

Theo, Give me (I mean descibe) a really good chain to see the PDC issue in Live. Something that uses commonly available tools.

Also, I'd like to test this in both Live and Reason. Obviously, the same chain won't work in both, but, if you have any ideas for making this visible in Reason, I'd like to hear about it.

tnx,
gs

[C-note]

Wow my friggin ableton live pdc topic had to turn into a reaper one.





I'm getting so over this .. Going to ask a mod to clean up all the off topic stuff. Thanks.

[samsam]

I've now read about 50 KVR pages on Live and PDC, I think I have it pretty clear what's going on.

Can anyone let me know how this compares to, say, REAPER?

Thanks in advance.

[noiseprovesnothing]

I've now read about 50 KVR pages on Live and PDC, I think I have it pretty clear what's going on.

Can anyone let me know how this compares to, say, REAPER?

Thanks in advance.

I personally haven't encountered any show-stopping issues with either, but then again, I spend my time working on music rather than worrying about minutia. All sequencer/DAWs suck in one way or another, and they all have workarounds for the things that suck about them.

I own and use both Live 9 (Suite, 64 bit) and Reaper (64 bit) among several others. What I mentioned above is why I have the several others.

[audioird]

I've now read about 50 KVR pages on Live and PDC, I think I have it pretty clear what's going on.

Can anyone let me know how this compares to, say, REAPER?

Thanks in advance.

It compares well. One may be more efficient than the other, but that depends on what you are doing and how. They are different so you can't really do the same thing. But keeping that in mind, they compare well.
You're welcome

[V0RT3X]

So far it's been a pretty good read. I really liked the video that theo showed which helped.

[highkoo]

Wow, so Live is basically broken, at v9?
And most users cant even tell!?
Crazy!

Its kind of funny that Live can handle a send signal into a latent plugin, but chokes on the timing of the automation...

Im not a Live user, and Im not a "normal" user maybe, but this sort of makes it so I could never ever use it as primary.
I havent checked out the Ableton thread, but dayum, how is this even a thing in a top 2013 DAW?
All the EDM being made in Live, and people dont run into this..?

Im late to the thread and the news, but thanks for doin the work on this one Theo.
Saved me some updates and likely some major frustration down the line...

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[SLiC]

Wow, so Live is basically broken, at v9?
And most users cant even tell!?
Crazy!...

Live has always worked this way, it wasn't something that happened at v9 ...it's been like that for 10 years, it was designed as a Live tool, but now people want to use it as a studio DAW and their main mixing tool....so this issue affects a few people who perhaps only have Live (personally I rewire to Cubase) but it has never stopped musicians making music (and if you really have to use Live for mixing etc, which really isn't it's forte, you.can always manualy a just the delay compensation)

To me, Live (the clues on the name) is the ultimate modular synth, sampler, looper and drum machine; an amazing sound design tool and idea starter- but for producing liniar arrangements adding vocal/guitar etc) it's better used with another DAW.

[hibidy]

And I still love live.

Cripes, at least it doesn't crash all the time like "you know who"

[highkoo]

Well being basically a non-user, it is kind of wild to be hearing about it and consider Live is at v9.
But its all subjective.
It would be a major issue for my own workflow, but on the other hand at least some portion of users have literally not even noticed it. Its got a thread at Abletons forums, yet Ableton has a steady healthy market share, and Im sure half the music I hear is made with Live.
I guess either way, objectively, if half the users dont care, Ableton shouldnt either.

Oop, just saw your post-

Live has always worked this way, it wasn't something that happened at v9 ...it's been like that for 10 years, it was designed as a Live tool, but now people want to use it as a studio DAW and their main mixing tool....so this issue affects a few people who perhaps only have Live

Yeah I get that, I just meant that I would think that by v9, what with so many people using it for production stuff, that they would have fixed something that is (relatively) simple. I mean, by design or not, Live is being used for a lot of EDM production end to end now.

[hibidy]

well I agree with that, I'd think that by version 9 it would be addressed. I try no to let it bother me. I can export and work in studio one if necessary. I've just been down that road, the road of "omg I can't believe there is this problem" and getting upset about it. Live mostly works. I can create and manipulate with it, that will just have to do.

A while back, I was keen on bitwig but at this time and considering some things that are not quite there yet, I'll not be spending anything over a hundred bucks on it right now (which means I'm not getting it ) so live will have to do.

I am disappointed in 9 though. To be honest, I feel that 9 was a step backward from 8. But I've got too many projects I've started in 9 to go back.

[Keef Baker]

Them fixing this issue was hugely important for me in 9 and it's a shame that didn't happen.

I kept saying to people that there's no point in having bezier curves if your curves are shit inaccurate anyway.

Ah well, I'll keep going with my workarounds.