Prophet VS sounds with Zebra?

[Ingonator]

How bad can this thing be if people are trying to get Zebra to do a VS emulation over it?

While it is nice that it was found now having the ability to use a vector mixer in Zebra does not automatically mean that it will be more authentic then Prophet V.
Programming vector movement (opposing to a "static" vector mixer) in Zebra seems to be only possible with the MSEGs which is tricky compared to programming a 2D mixer envelope in e.g. the Wavestation or Prophet V (or the 2D envelope in Synthmaster).

Patches using a "static" vector mixer should work fine.

One problem with the Wav To Zebra Tool (for conversion of WAV files to Zebra h2p format) seems to be that the waveform is downsampled to 128 samples which is much less than a single cycle of the original sample which is around 1400 samples long (at 44.1 kHz, 16-bit, C1 note).

Hopefully Zebra 3 will offer an option to import WAV files as single cycle waveforms directly, without loss of quality.


Ingo

[Kriminal]

One problem with the Wav To Zebra Tool (for conversion of WAV files to Zebra h2p format) seems to be that the waveform is downsampled to 128 samples which is much less than a single cycle of the original sample which is around 1400 samples long (at 44.1 kHz, 16-bit, C1 note).


Ingo

sample at a diff freq

[PietW.]

Is that legal ?

Copying is illegal. Convert is not illegal.
When the waveform is converted, it will also be changed automatically. This waveform so that no longer matches the original.
If you copy the waveforms directly from the ROM of the Wavestion this is illegal.

Says the German representation of Korg in Marburg.

So you are copying the original, then converting it

Sounds illegal to me...

Is not my problem. The statement from Korg is more than clear and unambiguous and understandable for everyone.

[Kriminal]

Indeed, pretty clear that what you are doing is illegal.

[PietW.]

Indeed, pretty clear that what you are doing is illegal.

Convert is illegal? Aha.
Hello Ingo. What we do is illegal and we'll have him out of jail.

[Kriminal]

...nevermind, i see you are german too.....laws dont interest you...

[PietW.]

...nevermind, i see you are german too.....laws dont interest you...

What does that have to do with it that I am a German. Do you have a problem that I'm German or can not read you. I can give address and telephone number of Korg in Marburg you like.

A statement from Urs/Uhe

So now every sample playback engine/synth using looped single cycle waves from a Minimoog or Virus is an illegal product?


End of communication with you

[Kriminal]

If you are sampling a sample and redistributing it without permission it is illegal

Doesnt matter that you have changed the format

[deastman]

I can't believe there has been eight pages of discussion about emulating a VS. I used to own one, but sold it because I never really cared for the sound of it. That thin, glassy sound which other have referred to gets old real fast, and then you just wish it could make some normal, rich, full, warm sounds. ..

[jupiter8]

One problem with the Wav To Zebra Tool (for conversion of WAV files to Zebra h2p format) seems to be that the waveform is downsampled to 128 samples which is much less than a single cycle of the original sample which is around 1400 samples long (at 44.1 kHz, 16-bit, C1 note).


Ingo

Zebra2 doesn't allow for longer cycles than 128 so it's an absolute necessity.

EDIT: Plus i kinda doubt the original waves were longer than 128 samples anyway.

[snigelx]

Of course I love Zebra for what it is setup to perform already (limitless IMO) and I'm not trying to deface/derail it by requesting such consideration. I think that anyone who has spent some time programing these vector synths (software and/or hardware) hopefully understands when I say that going from init to a complete patch (using VS) is much more immediate than to fanangle a likewise patching scenario in Zebra, as it is. So, in conclusion, if there is too little or no interest by the development team then absolutely no sweat.

I did not find the Wavestation (I owned the hardware keyboard version) easy compared to Zebra...

One can get into a particular thinking. What I mean is, trying to recreate the VS structure instead of considering the sound itself....

Hey there,

Thanks for the nice example Well, yes, this has got the morphing part of it, but there is a whole other dimension (2-D as a matter of fact to how the VS is working its x-fades and env interactions. each segment has it's own time and tragectory and that is immediately available for edit without having to mess around with setting loop lengths in a different tab and such as we do with Z2's 4 MsEGs. It's the immediacy of programming those sounds which enable certain hhmm...rhythmic... ideas (not really the word I am looking for) that would not develop in the same manner from toying around in Zebra with the invaluable OSCFx paired with MSEG and perform tab. Although, Zebra is very well quite capable of certain rhythmic phrasings, that is not up for debarte. But as I stated above, It's not so much about achieving or copying a sound behavior than it is getting the unique ideas when programming with position-able vectors and their envs in the VS way. To be able to move the vectors at an instant into whichever quadrant one wishes and then adjust env and loop times on-the-fly brings about different results and inspirations, that is what I meant by it being more 'immediate' to that vs style. It's the -method- of programming I was really after BUT WITH the Zebra timbre control. This is completely different in the VS. But like I say, it was only a passing suggestion really. I have the Arturia Pro-V (which I find also excellent for these easons, despite some hiccups) and Augur (which is fast and FUN to program for these VS ideas for sure) BTW, I have never used the Korg WS so I have no idea how one should program patches in it. I have half the mind to pick it up during the winter if someone is selling it in the Market. This whole VS thing is already a done deal for me however. Urs and the team are not really into the idea so we leave it at that. Cheers!

[snigelx]

PietW. and Ingo thank you very much BTW for your contributions. Always nice with new familiar timbres.

[snigelx]

So, in conclusion, if there is too little or no interest by the development team then absolutely no sweat.

Vector synthesis wouldn't really add anything to Zebra IMHO, so I reckon it's unlikely to be included in Z3. These days, there are much more exciting avenues to explore...

OK We'll leave it there then. Thanks for any consideration.

[Sendy]

I can't believe there has been eight pages of discussion about emulating a VS. I used to own one, but sold it because I never really cared for the sound of it. That thin, glassy sound which other have referred to gets old real fast, and then you just wish it could make some normal, rich, full, warm sounds. ..

At which point you turn to Zebra or Lush... Returning to your thin, glassy synth again when you need thin, glassy sounds

[Ingonator]

Zebra2 doesn't allow for longer cycles than 128 so it's an absolute necessity.

EDIT: Plus i kinda doubt the original waves were longer than 128 samples anyway.

AFAIK the sample-rate of the waveforms in the hardware Wavestation is 32 kHz at 16-bit (same as in the 01/W workstation) which should result in a higher quality than 128 samples.
According to the manual internal processing of the hardware Wavesatation is 24-bit and the DAC has 19-bit.

The Prophet VS used 12-bit samples while the original samples seemed to be stored on tape. In the VS the length seems to be indeed 128 samples. The Wavestation seems to use higher quality samples.

The VS single cycles i got from the Wavestation samples do not look like low quality at all.


Anyway in the Wavestation plugin the quality is higher than in the hardware and looses some of the "digital grit". I had noticed this in some case while comparing the hardware and the plugin. Also the low end of the hardware is better in most cases.


Ingo