Tone2 Firebird going Freeware

[cron]

I'll be installing this myself as I consider any risk to be minimal and I'm backed-up to the eyeballs, but just to play devil's advocate for a moment...

Anyone who's been around here a long time will remember the fiasco circa 2003 when the demo from a big name dev (can't remember which plug) deleted your entire VST folder on uninstall if you were unlucky enough to install to the root instead of a subfolder. I've had the V2 demo of a plug break my V1 install and couldn't recover due to not keeping a backup of the original installer. I appreciate that keeping a backup was my responsibility, but I really shouldn't have needed it in that case. Still a PITA.

Installers can and have done some silly things over the years and I can't blame people for being apprehensive about this and/or worrying about the possibility of false positives. If you reserve the right to make an unusually intrusive installer that pokes through people's files unnecessarily, users will also reserve the right to bitch about it on KVR.

[maxxxter]

DELETED

[Ingonator]

deleted

[Frantz]

I guess you are talking to the wrong person here. Ia m the last person on earth to do any harm to Tone2.

Yes, I know. I am making jokes. "Tone2 Prison" should be a clear signal that my post was not serious.

[ENV1]

The installer scans your vstplugins folder (the installeion folder) for illegal Tone2 key files, that's it.

No, it doesnt. (Last time im going to say it because its getting old.)

What the installer does is querying the dirs in question to determine an install path, so that it can auto-set a path even if the user doesnt have the VST/VSTPlugins key under HKLM/SOFTWARE.

(Yes, i could demonstrate that too, but im not going to because quite frankly this whole thing is beginning to bore me.)

[Ingonator]

deleted

[waiting man]

thread deserves a patch-chain.
share a patch or your left ear will fall.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/s2edxk

(nasty pad)

[bmrzycki]

- It did NOT scan my whole C: partition (it only accessed the System32 folder)

I'm not touching this with a 12 foot pole and borrowing someone else's computer. System32 is the nerve center of Windows. No plugin installer should ever, EVER be poking around in there.

If Tone2 feels that is the correct and acceptable way to treat all users as thieves by default then I feel the correct an acceptable way to to treat Tone2 is to not allow it on my system.

I've seen you defend their position and try to downplay this behavior as "only reading certain files". You've said earlier the plugin will delete keyfiles and registry keys. The fact is this plugin is actively scanning my files and potentially MAKING CHANGES TO MY SYSTEM WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE OR CONSENT under the guise of vigilante justice. What happens if the plugin discovers a false positive on a file or a reg key? I get the delightful scenario where a tool doesn't work for mysterious reasons and I have no idea why it's broken.

Piracy is wrong. If someone uses a tool the creators of that tool need to be compensated. I'm all for clever melting GUIs, long-delayed reverted to demo-mode, the instrument going out of tune, or any number of motivators developers around here apply to plugins. That's because they are keeping the changes WITHIN THE PLUGIN. Naughty boys and girls will know why their copy of synth X or effect Y is falling apart. But when that plugin starts poking around AND CHANGING the rest of the system? No thanks.

[Ingonator]

Ok,

i finally give it up as it does not seem to make any sense posting on that topic here. I'll delete most of my posts (except those not related to the copy protection topic).

If someone is asking for help with the plugin (not related to the protection) i'll see what i could do.

I got more important projects to work on than this (one is doind patches for Nemesis...).


Ingo

[Kriminal]

- It did NOT scan my whole C: partition (it only accessed the System32 folder)

I'm not touching this with a 12 foot pole and borrowing someone else's computer. System32 is the nerve center of Windows. No plugin installer should ever, EVER be poking around in there.

If Tone2 feels that is the correct and acceptable way to treat all users as thieves by default then I feel the correct an acceptable way to to treat Tone2 is to not allow it on my system.

I've seen you defend their position and try to downplay this behavior as "only reading certain files". You've said earlier the plugin will delete keyfiles and registry keys. The fact is this plugin is actively scanning my files and potentially MAKING CHANGES TO MY SYSTEM WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE OR CONSENT under the guise of vigilante justice. What happens if the plugin discovers a false positive on a file or a reg key? I get the delightful scenario where a tool doesn't work for mysterious reasons and I have no idea why it's broken.

Piracy is wrong. If someone uses a tool the creators of that tool need to be compensated. I'm all for clever melting GUIs, long-delayed reverted to demo-mode, the instrument going out of tune, or any number of motivators developers around here apply to plugins. That's because they are keeping the changes WITHIN THE PLUGIN. Naughty boys and girls will know why their copy of synth X or effect Y is falling apart. But when that plugin starts poking around AND CHANGING the rest of the system? No thanks.

well said

[ENV1]

I am talking about what the installer does duing installing the plugin (where the path was already chosen...).

That doesnt alter the fact that the installer is not scanning for Tone2 keyfiles.

What you observe there is the phenomenon i was talking about in my first post, i.e. what the FireBird vs Corona clip showed.

Totally different things, so perhaps you shouldnt just lump everything together.

(You as in everyone.)



Anyway, i see now that this is pointless. If people want to see something they will find a way to see it even if the proof says otherwise. Fine with me since its ultimately not my problem, it only annoys me that i was stupid enough to waste part of my weekend on this when i should have known the outcome right from the beginning.


Oh well...

[mkdr]

Lol. Some retards never learn.

[Ingonator]

Anyway, i see now that this is pointless. If people want to see something they will find a way to see it even if the proof says otherwise. Fine with me since its ultimately not my problem, it only annoys me that i was stupid enough to waste part of my weekend on this when i should have known the outcome right from the beginning.

Exactly the same thought and i had much better things to do with my time.

Note to myself:
When the Tone2 copy protection topic comes back again simply STFU...


Ingo

[eidenk]

You'd be surprised by how many programs/plugins do access standard windows locations over and over for nearly whatever they do, it's down to standard dependencies into files like shell32.dll the Visual Studio creates in nearly every executable file it compiles. If you had to remove/not use all programs/plugins that do that, you'd certainly find yourself with hardly anything to work with...

[chk071]

- It did NOT scan my whole C: partition (it only accessed the System32 folder)

I'm not touching this with a 12 foot pole and borrowing someone else's computer. System32 is the nerve center of Windows. No plugin installer should ever, EVER be poking around in there.

There are many, many program which not only access your system32 folder, but also install stuff in it, to be able to run.