it's almost September

[Urs]

I am sure it has already been discussed elsewhere but does Satin allow frippertronics kind of very long delay times tape effects ?

Unfortunately not (yet). As we can't (yet) allocate memory on the fly without crashing, each instance would need tens of megabytes to allow for longish delays. So at the moment we made it up to a bit more than one second, or 8 inches at 7.5 ips. Which is giant for a tape echo

However, once crucial element for dynamic per-instance-based delay line allocation was implemented yesterday. Literally the same thing that prevents Cubase from crashing when the flanger is changed.

Now, who knows a good Paella restaurant at Playa de Las Canteras? Wife and I are getting ready for a stroll over the esplanade before we need our mandatory Paella experience on the last night out

[Phase47]

My B-day is in Sept - 9/9 to be exact, Urs, please tell me I'll be able to gift Satin to myself!

That would be the day

AWESOME! Can't wait.

[geronimo]

Enjoy this holiday _

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserRe ... lands.html

[Urs]

Enjoy this holiday _

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserRe ... lands.html

Hahaha, we actually ended up going there

I tried to boycot them because they ruined our last new years eve (long story...) and they tend to grill fish to charcoal. However, their seafood paella is superb. Highly recommended.

[Krakatau]

So at the moment we made it up to a bit more than one second, or 8 inches at 7.5 ips. Which is giant for a tape echo

I like your accuracy a lot, i assume it should be obvious into a modeling process, to figure this out

It seems to me that kvr as drastically change in a good way and i'm afraid i've got now a hard time time to stay up to date in the understanding of all details of conception

I clearly remember that it wasn't the case ten years ago (the early "more feedback machine" time...)

[Urs]

Well, my reasoning for super-long delays was always the memory aspect. Anything *long* would either need to stream to harddrive or have a "big memory" choice. That hasn't changed from MFM2 to Satin.

However, one can't just allocate memory on the fly in a plug-in, or stream to disc. The plug-in needs a timer-based solution that does all this outside of critical areas.

The 8 inches btw. were a practical decision - in Host Sync Mode it's up to eight 1/16th notes.

[Ch00rD]

Well, my reasoning for super-long delays was always the memory aspect. Anything *long* would either need to stream to harddrive or have a "big memory" choice. That hasn't changed from MFM2 to Satin.

However, one can't just allocate memory on the fly in a plug-in, or stream to disc. The plug-in needs a timer-based solution that does all this outside of critical areas.

The 8 inches btw. were a practical decision - in Host Sync Mode it's up to eight 1/16th notes.

But if you'd use a BPM lower than 112.5, that would take more time than 1.0666 sec. So how does that work out in practice, if you use the maximum delay time in Host Sync Mode at a lower tempo?

Also, would it perhaps be possible to add a low-quality mode, doubling the length of the delay by using only half the bit depth (e.g. 32 bit instead of 64 floating point)?

[Sendy]

Well, my reasoning for super-long delays was always the memory aspect. Anything *long* would either need to stream to harddrive or have a "big memory" choice. That hasn't changed from MFM2 to Satin.

However, one can't just allocate memory on the fly in a plug-in, or stream to disc. The plug-in needs a timer-based solution that does all this outside of critical areas.

The 8 inches btw. were a practical decision - in Host Sync Mode it's up to eight 1/16th notes.

But if you'd use a BPM lower than 112.5, that would take more time than 1.0666 sec. So how does that work out in practice, if you use the maximum delay time in Host Sync Mode at a lower tempo?

Also, would it perhaps be possible to add a low-quality mode, doubling the length of the delay by using only half the bit depth (e.g. 32 bit instead of 64 floating point)?

Or maybe slower tape speed for longer but darker echoes?

[Urs]

hehehe, Satin is a tape plug-in in the first place. You will have to live with the fact that delay times won't be endless (as of yet) and that minimum tape speed is 7.5 ips - like with all our delay plug-ins (as of yet), it'll just stop at a certain length. We have discussed strategies (warning signals, delay line stretching etc.) for future enhancements, but we haven't yet set anything in stone.

[xh3rv]

Could just chain a few hundred instances for a full tape reel

I know, not really

[Ch00rD]

hehehe, Satin is a tape plug-in in the first place. You will have to live with the fact that delay times won't be endless (as of yet) and that minimum tape speed is 7.5 ips - like with all our delay plug-ins (as of yet), it'll just stop at a certain length. We have discussed strategies (warning signals, delay line stretching etc.) for future enhancements, but we haven't yet set anything in stone.

I'll throw in another suggestion for possible enhancement, then: make a 4 input / 4 output version, using the additional I/O pairs to let users 'insert' whatever effects they want in the feedback loop (assuming, of course, the host can manage the required routing), including additional delay effects. One could use something like Augustus Loop to have up to an hour of additional delay time - that's 28800 inches of tape! That would also be really useful for further tweaking with creative effects, like inserting additional saturation / distortion / reverb / flanger / whatever crazy stuff you can think of in the feedback stage.

[Ch00rD]

Could just chain a few hundred instances for a full tape reel

I know, not really

I was just thinking: how many instances do we need to chain before we get Sly Stone's overdubbed-to-hell-and-back sound?

[3*s]

Extra memory allocation seems reasonable as an option. Honestly, "10s on MBs" is nothing for today's computers. For comparison, I have a project open right now with 4 instances of diva, 2 of zebra, 4 of sylenth, 40 or so mix effects, and 8 audio tracks and it uses roughly 3gb of 8gb. So for a full project I have 5gb worth of "really long tape delays" if I want them. :p This is with "mid-high" range hardware (i860 based, about $500 worth of hardware not including carry-overs) from 3 years ago.

Of course there are people with older computers or ipad/cellphone/iStopWatch producers, so something that allocates memory for a rather esoteric effect would be best kept as an option. But I would be willing to bet the majority would have no trouble with it switched on.

2 cents, that's all. Or possibly part of my secret plan to further delay Satin so Diva gets pushed ahead.

[EvilDragon]

Yeah I also wouldn't mind if there were a global setting somewhere that would set the amount of memory reserved for the delay buffer...

[sascha]

The initial mission was to 'nail' the tape sound and make a plugin for serious professional studio endeavours (as opposed to just have a bunch of filters and saturators and call it tape emulation). The rest just came 'on top', so please bare with us not having put the focus that much on a be-all-end-all delay