Satin goes V1.1

[4damind]

Nice, congratulation guys
Lasst euch den Kuchen schmecken und das grösste Stück für Sascha!

[SJ_Digriz]

at the atomic level all software is caffeine, pizza and pound cake(donuts, pie, cake etc..).

[Gribs]

We have a phrase at work that goes "eating Twinkies and drinking Coke" which basically means pulling all-nighters cranking the last few percent of CPU performance out of your computational algorithm and code while subsisting on food and drink from the vending machines

[pheeleep]

Is the feedback knob under the delay section supposed to sound like a really bad reverb when turned up?

Insert any synth with default patch (example: Harmor, Twin2, etc..) and play/record a few notes. Insert Satin, go to delay section and set up a delay (or use a delay preset). Turn up the feedback knob. All that I am hearing is a very bad sort of reverb effect. Is this the intended effect? Don't see myself every using this. Maybe it's because I am trying this on a synth sound? (?)

Also, as with all U-he plugins, I can't resize the GUI in Fl Studio. if I make it smaller the Satin GUI is hosted in a bigger Fl Studio grey window. if I make it bigger, a small section of the UI gets zoomed in but the entire UI does not display in full.

Using 32 bit Sating VST2 version in Fl Studio 11 32-bit.

[Compyfox]

Okay... I've got a couple of hours left until I need to crash again for yet another busy day tomorrow.

Looks like v1.0 is out. How did you handle the presets now? I really used the same tagging as with the beta presets.

Speaking of which... I've never been an U-HE user, so I don't know anything about patch-pools. But I do know that ZEBRA caused a sh*tload of that within the first half year alone! So how can we find the presets, and how can we find out if they're any good?


Nice cake btw - definitely not a lie!

at the atomic level all software is caffeine, pizza and pound cake(donuts, pie, cake etc..).

Sorry, can't resist:





Regarding the Reference Level:

There's no threshold. No 'compression' going on here.

It's the VU monitoring reference. Straightforward and pretty common among visualizing tools. The aim is to outweigh steady state against transients. Therefore, it only applies to the VU instrument, not the peak meters.

Satin has a headroom control in the service panel which changes the available dynamic range for the circuits surrounding the tape. Using that in conjunction with the tape part - along with interaction of the entire system - is a more complex thing than just setting up a reference level.

Understandable, but I've learned to "hate" tapes back in the day - since it had limits and I didn't know what a VU is.

And this is the very reason why tape machines are calibrated (underbiased or overbiased / undervolted or overvolted in terms of the VU). A tape has certain limits and a hotspot, just like hardware. And analog gear usually has that hotspot between -20/-18dBFS (ideally in RMSRMS or 0VU = -20/-18dB) and -9dBFS.

If you go over that hotspot (say -16dBFS), this start to either go to sh*t, or adds pleasant harmonic content. The very reason why tape machines are used up until this day.


And commercial tape machines (read: consumer) were totally unforgiving on that behalf. If your peak is only slightly too hot (just minumally over 0VU), and you used the wrong tape and maybe even wrong NR - too much lowend, distortion, etc.


Having VU that can be setup to a reference level is all good and fine. But we'd at least need to either know the hotspots of the module (I think since you measured at -20dBFS, it's that), or we can chance it exactly (in dB!) with the headroom setting.


Sorry for being overly technical. But I'm an AE - I'm reliant on reference levels and need to know how a module behaves to effectively use it.

[Urs]

Is the feedback knob under the delay section supposed to sound like a really bad reverb when turned up?

Insert any synth with default patch (example: Harmor, Twin2, etc..) and play/record a few notes. Insert Satin, go to delay section and set up a delay (or use a delay preset). Turn up the feedback knob. All that I am hearing is a very bad sort of reverb effect. Is this the intended effect? Don't see myself every using this. Maybe it's because I am trying this on a synth sound? (?)

It's in the readme... use fixed buffersize and a buffer of 64/256/512 or anything dividable by 16

Will be fixed ina few days!

[Urs]

Added "Known Issues" below the download link... that should do it for now

[pheeleep]

Is the feedback knob under the delay section supposed to sound like a really bad reverb when turned up?

Insert any synth with default patch (example: Harmor, Twin2, etc..) and play/record a few notes. Insert Satin, go to delay section and set up a delay (or use a delay preset). Turn up the feedback knob. All that I am hearing is a very bad sort of reverb effect. Is this the intended effect? Don't see myself every using this. Maybe it's because I am trying this on a synth sound? (?)

It's in the readme... use fixed buffersize and a buffer of 64/256/512 or anything dividable by 16

Will be fixed ina few days!

Thank you I hadn't seen the notes...

[Compyfox]

O-kay I see what you did there with the presets. But...

1) The ö is omitted in the presets
2) Didn't expect you changing the name Copycat to KopyKat (might as well have called it Copy the Cat, as they were initially called)
3) Why are the RE-201 presets altered in terms of Output Gain?
4) All reference levels were reset to -6dB as well (I had them at -18dB)


Er... bug? Or conversion flaw?
(apparently no bug, my old presets use the values I set them up to)

Actually, the Copycat Sync preset was also omitted. I left it in there due to the tape settings, just like the RE-201 (which also can't be synced - but I did it anyway).

To quote a famous Dalek:
"Explaaaaaaain?!" (pretty please?)



AND - Bug Report:
Cubase 7 crashes on plugin load with the VST3 version again (revision 1837).

[Urs]

O-kay I see what you did there with the presets. But...

We went through the presets and adjusted output volumes to some consistent value among all of them - that's an often called for feature. We also had to remove preset names that hint at trademarks

True, all reference levels were set to a coherent value across all presets. That's a good candidate for a user default - something we've got on our todo list.

I hope this isn't seen as intrusive, it was a call on very short notice when we added the contributions that have come in since some time last week.

[Dip200]

Why does the reference level knob not change the threshold/headroom?

There's no threshold. No 'compression' going on here.

It's the VU monitoring reference. Straightforward and pretty common among visualizing tools. The aim is to outweigh steady state against transients. Therefore, it only applies to the VU instrument, not the peak meters.

Satin has a headroom control in the service panel which changes the available dynamic range for the circuits surrounding the tape. Using that in conjunction with the tape part - along with interaction of the entire system - is a more complex thing than just setting up a reference level.

Wenn der Inputwert, den man mit dem Inputregler einstellt, den Saturationseffekt ändert, gibt es sehr wohl eine Art Treshold. Je mehr Input, desto mehr Saturation.

Sagen wir es mal so und ich möchte darum bitten, dass jetzt mal ganz genau zu lesen und zu versuchen zu verstehen:

Ich habe meinen Mixer und Equipment auf einen bestimmten db Wert abgestimmt. Der Wert liegt aber so tief, dass Satin nicht richtig in die Saturation gefahren wird. Jetzt stell ich den Referenzwert meiner Kalibrierung entsprechend ein und sehe, dass das Signal die richtigte Lautheit aufweist, entsprechend meiner Kalibrierung.
Toll, das wusste ich aber schon vorher!

Jetzt kommt der Knackpunkt: Nun muss ich den Inputwert erhöhen, wenn ich die Bandmaschine richtig "anfahren" will. Und was sehe ich nun im VU Meter ? Die Nadeln kleben rechts am Rand fest.

Fazit: Die Referenzwerteinstellung muss auch den "Treshold" oder den Inputdrive ändern.

Oder anders ausgedrückt: Ich will nicht nur das Vu- Meter an meine kalibrierte Session anpassen, sondern auch - und in erster Linie - die Bandmaschine und ihr Saturationsverhalten als solches.

Mit VTM geht dies übrigens. So irre kann mein Vorschlag wohl kaum sein.

[David Else]

Sounds fantastic in studio mode!

Using the 1.0 release in demo mode on a PC, in Reaper 4.52 32bit the knobs bounce all over the place as you move them. Sometimes the graphics jump seemingly randomly and come right back, and sometime they just jump to the wrong position and stay there.

[Breeze]

If the input value that you set with the input knob changes the Saturationseffekt, there are indeed a kind of Threshold. The more input, the more saturation.

Let's put it this way and I would like to ask that now time to read very carefully and try to understand:

I have tuned my mixer and equipment to a specific db value. The value lies so deep that satin is not properly driven into the saturation. Now I add the reference value of my calibration and a correspondingly see that the signal has the correct preferential loudness, according to my calibration.
Great, but I knew before!

Now comes the crucial point: Now I have to increase the input value if I want the tape right "approach". And what I see now in the VU meters? The needles stick right by the edge.

Conclusion: The reference value setting must also change the "Threshold" or the input drive.

In other words, I want to not only adjust the VU meters on my calibrated session, but also - and primarily - the tape machine and their Saturationsverhalten [saturation behavior] such.

VTM with this goes the way. So wrong can hardly be my suggestion.

Interesting idea...

[sascha]

If the input value that you set with the input knob changes the Saturationseffekt, there are indeed a kind of Threshold. The more input, the more saturation.

Let's put it this way and I would like to ask that now time to read very carefully and try to understand:

I have tuned my mixer and equipment to a specific db value. The value lies so deep that satin is not properly driven into the saturation. Now I add the reference value of my calibration and a correspondingly see that the signal has the correct preferential loudness, according to my calibration.
Great, but I knew before!

Now comes the crucial point: Now I have to increase the input value if I want the tape right "approach". And what I see now in the VU meters? The needles stick right by the edge.

Conclusion: The reference value setting must also change the "Threshold" or the input drive.

In other words, I want to not only adjust the VU meters on my calibrated session, but also - and primarily - the tape machine and their Saturationsverhalten [saturation behavior] such.

VTM with this goes the way. So wrong can hardly be my suggestion.

Interesting idea...

VTM has no peak meters, that's one aspect to notice. Peak metering is always absolute. Our VU/RMS meter has been made adjustable to support engineers that work like 'I'm shooting for -11dB RMS' on this track, so that the needle can move around the 0 VU mark. Our testers already found the VU adjustment extremely helpful and I've borrowed the same concept from a mastering processor I did in 2007 in its first incarnation which achieved quite some pro reputation, so I was never questioning that feature.
That said, if we would add a seperate operation-level calibration feature (to change the internal point from -18 / -15dBFS @ 3% THD), that won't touch the VU reference feature.

But at the moment, I can't talk this any further, as we're completely overworked and the last days were unusually exhausting for us, and we need a short break concerning concepts and future plans. So, if we're not always all ears in these hours, it's perhaps our physics. *going to bed now*

[kmonkey]

I don't get it. Level calibration is so simple and spot on to use with this plugin..why confusion