Zebra2 modulating Env Attack and Decay

[goldenhelix]

I have not been able to modulate either of these parameters. Sustain and release modulate just fine using the Matrix. Using the exact same settings except changing it to attack or decay will have no effect on those parameters. The manual even features an example of aftertouch modulating decay time, so I don't see why this is not working.

EDIT: I have found one modulation source that actually works: the Global LFOs will modulate attack and decay, but so far no other source works. Even a MMix does not work. This is incredibly disappointing.

[3ee]

I have found one modulation source that actually works...

Modwhl works as well for example...

added: well, to my surprise, "free" LFOs don't work on neither attack or decay...

LFO on decay idea sounds interesting.

[goldenhelix]

Ah, Ok, admittedly there are a few that I haven't tested out because I don't have a keyboard with a modwheel on it, etc.

[Urs]

Yeah, there's a known shortcoming with Attack and also with Decay if Attack is very short. Only modulators that are above the envelopes in the drop down list will work in those cases.

The reason is simple: Due to optimisation, Zebra calculates the envelope timing parameters for each stage only once, when the stage is reached. 10 years ago, calculation of those things was expensive on CPU

Nevertheless, any modulator that's after the envelopes in the list has not yet been calculated when the envelope triggers - they're first evaluated after the nevelope has already started. Hence those modulators can only be applied with a delay of about a millisecond and a half. Which usually is fine (similar to MIDI timing), but as envelope times aren't updated ever again, there's no effect.

Part of the idea of rewriting everything for Zebra3 is to make envelope timing dynamic and thus applicable to in-depth modulation via modmatrix

[pdxindy]

I have not been able to modulate either of these parameters. Sustain and release modulate just fine using the Matrix. Using the exact same settings except changing it to attack or decay will have no effect on those parameters. The manual even features an example of aftertouch modulating decay time, so I don't see why this is not working.

EDIT: I have found one modulation source that actually works: the Global LFOs will modulate attack and decay, but so far no other source works. Even a MMix does not work. This is incredibly disappointing.

Would certainly be useful to be able to modulate envelope attack and decay freely... However, you can also use an MSEG as an envelope and do it that way. I sometimes use the MSEG as the volume envelope and then use the ModMapper to add variation to the attack or decay. You of course also can create any envelope shape you want with the MSEG.

Edit: Here is an example of one of my presets using the MSEG and ModMapper to add some variation to the attack speed

http://draigathar.org//sounds/Zdsr2.mp3

[trance_lucent]

As for LFO problems while GLFOs work ok, there is some issue, I wrote about it:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=341748

[goldenhelix]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I can now see why the LFO doesn't work but the GLFO does. I'm not a programmer, but it seems fixing this would be a matter of passing the value from the modulation source before the env calculates its attack time, but it might not be that simple. I guess for now I'll have to live with using MSEG or the GLFO - not the end of the world. Thanks again everyone.

[Urs]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I can now see why the LFO doesn't work but the GLFO does. I'm not a programmer, but it seems fixing this would be a matter of passing the value from the modulation source before the env calculates its attack time, but it might not be that simple. I guess for now I'll have to live with using MSEG or the GLFO - not the end of the world. Thanks again everyone.

Hehehe, it's a chicken and egg problem. You can assign an envelope directly onto a ModMapper or an LFO. So any of those need the envelope to be computed first.

However, yes, we could evaluate Attack and Decay dynamically... so that with a little latency, the later modulators can reach those parameters. We might eventually do that.

[trance_lucent]

Hehehe, it's a chicken and egg problem. You can assign an envelope directly onto a ModMapper or an LFO. So any of those need the envelope to be computed first.

Envelope modulating itself should result in envelope with another curvature.

[Urs]

Hehehe, it's a chicken and egg problem. You can assign an envelope directly onto a ModMapper or an LFO. So any of those need the envelope to be computed first.

Envelope modulating itself should result in envelope with another curvature.

Yep. One can do that in Bazille/ACE envelopes. One day we hope to be able to do it in Zebra's too

[pdxindy]

Hehehe, it's a chicken and egg problem. You can assign an envelope directly onto a ModMapper or an LFO. So any of those need the envelope to be computed first.

Envelope modulating itself should result in envelope with another curvature.

Yep. One can do that in Bazille/ACE envelopes. One day we hope to be able to do it in Zebra's too

And it is just not that important to do in Zebra anyway cause there is already a slope control and there are the MSEG's which can have any envelope shape one wants.