I've been using the T-Racks Brickwall Limiter ever since I got it in the Singles group buy a few years ago. Lately I've come across Toneboosters' Barricade.
Do any of you have opinions on the two? I've always set the ceiling to -0.3, is that necessary/helpful or do I not need to bother and just set the ceiling to 0?
Sorry if this belongs in the 'Getting Started' part of the forums, I put it in Effects as it relates to those.
I've also had Ozone and was pretty happy with it, but alas have had to sell it. Now I'm left with the choices mentioned above.
cheers,
Fabian
TB Barricade vs T-Racks Brickwall Limiter?
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- KVRAF
- 1817 posts since 1 Jun, 2003
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- KVRAF
- 14739 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Worlds aparte between TB Barricade and T-Racks Brickwall. I won't trust any Brickwall limiter other than TB (and Fabfilter Pro-L, through I only use that one at clients rigs) anymore.
Why?
- TB Barricade catches True Peaks (ISP Mode), IKM Brickwall does not - even if IKM Brickwall has Oversampling active, which already has a somewhat -0,2dBFS ceiling
- TB has a some sort of "infinite OS" if you turn up the look ahead, IKM Brickwall does not have a lookahead and only has 2x OS (in preferences)
- IMO, T-Racks starts to pump sooner if you push too much load into the limiter, even with the most cleanest mode
- TB Barricade is way more flexible than IKM Brickwall
If you want a really good brickwall limiter (that is however best suited for mastering, not while realtime usage due to it's latency!) and have 15 EUR to shell out, get TB Barricade.
-0,3dB ceiling doesn't help you if intersample peaks still happen (easy to check with True Peak metering tools like Brainworx, or even just the demo of TB EBULoudness).
Neither does it if the loudness is too strong and you plan to encode into formats like OGG/MP3/AAC without suitable tools to check if you have overs or not.
In short:
T-Racks Brickwall is cool for quick and easy stuff, and if you connect T-Racks Clipper in front of it(!!!). With a suitable ceiling (from my experience, at least -0,5dB!). It can also be used as Channel Limiter (read: in realime)
TB Barricade is a traditional high class mastering limiter for extreme low budget. And the most brital one at that as well. By that I mean - no compromise, it's surgical, it's fast to use (through it introduces latency) and it conforms with latest standards.
Also, TB only uses serial files, IKM needs C/R and the Custom Shop. TB is also more frequently updated than IKM's limiter.
Just my 2c.
Why?
- TB Barricade catches True Peaks (ISP Mode), IKM Brickwall does not - even if IKM Brickwall has Oversampling active, which already has a somewhat -0,2dBFS ceiling
- TB has a some sort of "infinite OS" if you turn up the look ahead, IKM Brickwall does not have a lookahead and only has 2x OS (in preferences)
- IMO, T-Racks starts to pump sooner if you push too much load into the limiter, even with the most cleanest mode
- TB Barricade is way more flexible than IKM Brickwall
If you want a really good brickwall limiter (that is however best suited for mastering, not while realtime usage due to it's latency!) and have 15 EUR to shell out, get TB Barricade.
-0,3dB ceiling doesn't help you if intersample peaks still happen (easy to check with True Peak metering tools like Brainworx, or even just the demo of TB EBULoudness).
Neither does it if the loudness is too strong and you plan to encode into formats like OGG/MP3/AAC without suitable tools to check if you have overs or not.
In short:
T-Racks Brickwall is cool for quick and easy stuff, and if you connect T-Racks Clipper in front of it(!!!). With a suitable ceiling (from my experience, at least -0,5dB!). It can also be used as Channel Limiter (read: in realime)
TB Barricade is a traditional high class mastering limiter for extreme low budget. And the most brital one at that as well. By that I mean - no compromise, it's surgical, it's fast to use (through it introduces latency) and it conforms with latest standards.
Also, TB only uses serial files, IKM needs C/R and the Custom Shop. TB is also more frequently updated than IKM's limiter.
Just my 2c.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1817 posts since 1 Jun, 2003
thanks for the in-depth reply. the latency of barricade i will have to consider, all else looks really good. and sounds good, too.
Yes, I think ISP is a good thing to have. Pro-L is way out of my current price range, but nice to have your thoughts on that one as well.
Yes, I think ISP is a good thing to have. Pro-L is way out of my current price range, but nice to have your thoughts on that one as well.
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- KVRAF
- 2275 posts since 4 Dec, 2011 from Brasília, Brazil
Great explanation Compyfox. Thank you for the detailed analysis.
My soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/waltercruz
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- KVRAF
- 14739 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
The latency is a non-issue with hosts that have PDC, or while using in Wavelab (Mastering environments in general)
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1817 posts since 1 Jun, 2003
i'm mostly using plogue Bidule nowadays for improvisational music, so it may be a bit different in that scenario. I usually 'master' my material in FLStudio, though, and it's got PDC.Compyfox wrote:The latency is a non-issue with hosts that have PDC, or while using in Wavelab (Mastering environments in general)
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- KVRAF
- 4468 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell
if you don't squash your mixes to shit, i think either will do a good job. if you really need a limiter to *limit* (as opposed to simple overshoot protection), by all means, get Barricade.
I don't know what to write here that won't be censored, as I can only speak in profanity.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1817 posts since 1 Jun, 2003
I don't tend to squash too much. I might push up to 3db, but mostly I just use the limiter as overshoot protection.
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- KVRAF
- 4468 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell
what i mean is, if your limiter is constantly engaged (e.g. if your threshold is constantly close to where your peaks are), get Barricade (i don't trust the T-Racks limiter too much, as you can seefabi wrote:I don't tend to squash too much. I might push up to 3db, but mostly I just use the limiter as overshoot protection.
). if not (e.g. if your peaks are usually several dB lower than the limiter threshold with only VERY occasional peaks in the loudest parts hitting the limiter), then you can do away with T-Racks (or any other limiter, for that matter, even a compressor with high threshold will do).I don't know what to write here that won't be censored, as I can only speak in profanity.
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- KVRist
- 63 posts since 26 May, 2008
Sounds as if you need a limiter for two separate jobs: to stop overshoots while improvising and to master what you've done. For the first task, I wouldn't get Barricade. It has a latency until the middle of next week.
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- KVRAF
- 2696 posts since 3 Aug, 2003 from Narnia
The original JB Barricade, which became TB Barricade when Jeroen Breebaart went to ToneBossters, was released as part of a freeware bundle a while back.
http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2012/10 ... -freeware/
I don't know if it's still available, and it's 32bit only as well, but it might suit your needs.
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EDIT
They're not on his site now, but you can still download the bundle from here...
http://web.archive.org/web/201306081839 ... lugins.zip
http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2012/10 ... -freeware/
I don't know if it's still available, and it's 32bit only as well, but it might suit your needs.
_________________________________________
EDIT
They're not on his site now, but you can still download the bundle from here...
http://web.archive.org/web/201306081839 ... lugins.zip
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- KVRAF
- 14739 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
JB and TB are both lead by Jeroen Breebaart, there is nothing more. It's just that Jeroen outsourced his VST creations from his personal page.