Does U-he seriously not have any sales/specials?

[DHR53]

I remember the first time I purchased a U-he synth, I guess it was Zebra... I was really impressed that I could scroll through the presets and interface from the keyboard... on the mac version. I knew that whoever had programmed the synth, knew what they were doing, and was obviously tight with Mac programming conventions. Which at the time plugins were all over the place between the Mac and Windows version as far as functionality. My opinion hasn't change one bit since.

[djscorb]

I think Urs' policy on sales is spot on. Sales can devalue products and the existing loyal users that paid full price are the ones that u-he should be rewarding rather than leaving them kicking themselves for paying more.

I really don't like business models where companies care more about gaining new sales and customers than they do about looking after their existing ones. Clearly there is a balance to be made between attracting new customers and keeping existing ones happy.

With that in mind I think having a small percentage off the checkout price for each u-he plugin already owned makes sense. It rewards existing customers, promotes brand loyalty and would hopefully sell more plugins too.

Cheers

Scorb

[Tp3]

I think Urs' policy on sales is spot on. Sales can devalue products and the existing loyal users that paid full price are the ones that u-he should be rewarding rather than leaving them kicking themselves for paying more.

I'm sorry but that is simply not correct.

I have bought Camel Audio's Alchemy in the huge group-buy (which is strictly speaking, a "Sale"). the final price was 125$ IIRC (which was - and is - 50% the full price).

Did it "devalue" Camel Audio and\or Alchemy ? NOT AT ALL.

It just made me PROUDER in owning all their current plugline (Alchemy\CamelPhat\CamelSpace) and made me buy quite a few sound libraries (8 or 9 banks).

Urs' strategy is HIS own, private strategy, and should be taken in light of the company's track records and market opinion.

This is how he thinks he should run his business, there's no right or wrong. and according to him (and according to the way the industry embraces u-He's synths)... I guess he's probably right.

I gotta say one thing : as one who owns most of u-He's line (probably ALL - by the end of the year), and possessing every free synth they ever made (Zoyd is only for mac, and I own a PC. so, no Zoyd for me...) - I feel I was given SO MUCH good stuff for free (Podolski, Zebralette, TyrellN6, Zebra|CM, Triple Cheese, ltmLabs Line), that is doesn't bother me that they don't do sales (well, there was one exception. but very quickly I realized I'd be happy be pay the full asking price. and never looked back).

[ngarjuna]

It does devalue the plugin, esp when it comes to resale. I have a personal and recent example:

I have seen a certain synth emulation suite for sale a couple of times in the MarketPlace for around $200 lately; which is about 50% off "retail" and about 30% off the best prices you can find. Good deal, right? Only if you forget about the fact that the company ran a sale this summer where you could pick it up for $200 (or $100 if you were a previous hardware and software customer, which I am). And now, despite the fact that it's no longer available on sale for $200 (much less $100), I cannot bring myself to pay double what the company would have charged me for a used copy. I have to think a similar sale to the summer blowout is around the corner (and however long it is that's probably how long I'll wait). This plugin is no longer worth $399 to anyone with rudimentary Google skills and that means that the resale value is also affected. Had that sale not taken place I'd consider ~$200 in the MarketPlace to be a pretty decent deal.

With Diva it was so much simpler: I wanted it, I knew the price (which wasn't going to fluctuate, nor did I have to trek to 5 online shops and log in with a valid user ID to check for the very best price); and the result was, I bought it. Still waiting for that other company to re-run that sale.

[lofty]

...

[Urs]

As I said, we're working on a loyality reward scheme.

Thing is however, 95% of the people who bought Satin for the introduction offer were returning customers. So while our introduction offers are not really marked as such, they are in fact discounts for our existing user base. We could as well say "1 month introduction offer to existing customers" and sell it only at full price to new customers. This would however require us to set up some infrastructure - only to exclude those 5% lucky ones who got the benefit without being known as loyal customers.

But: We already did that once. When Uhbik came out, all existing customers were entitled to a 50$ off voucher code. Naturally we could only send that to those who had subscribed to our newsletter, and among those only to people who kept their records up to date with us. Only 350 out of back then 6000 users took that offer, even though many, many more have bought into it. Thus the idea of sending a voucher code was IMHO a failure, it reached too few people.

Throughout the past two years we have built up a new instrument though, which is our support website. It's naturally much more effort to set something up there than to create and send out a voucher. For a bit more than the first year we also had many people who's records weren't up to date. I think by now we have complete and correct data for more than 99% of users. Thus this is where it may be heading.

Until then we have a lot on our plates though...

[fluffy_little_something]

I guess that shopping and promotion mentality is typical of Anglo-Saxon countries where most companies will do almost anything to drive sales figures up.

As long as a company has a product that is better than the competition, there is no need for promotions, though. People who appreciate quality, will buy things even if they are more expensive.
A $xxx plugin should be considered an investment, not a bargain which you buy and sell on the market place just like that.

I also dislike magware etc., which is why for instance I never bought Dune. If they had a policy like U-he or Tone2, I would have bought Dune at the full price and been proud to have it.

Promotions also screw up pricing when having to sell something. Just think of Image Line with their predictable promotions. They make you feel stupid if you ever bought anything at the full price because you didn't wait a few more months.

[Burillo]

i like how Orange Tree does things as well. normally, they have an intro price and so far only had two sales (both were group buys, not a fixed discount) in like 5 years? the key is not to have sales or discounts every 5 minutes like some of the companies (*cough* IK *cough*) do.

[michkhol]

I hope that the loyalty reward scheme Urs mentioned is much lower priority than developing code. Established users already got their perks in the form of free updates which do not generate revenue yet consume great deal of resources. Had Urs paid updates, we probably would be at Zebra 3.0, Diva 2.0, Ace 2.0, Bazille 1.0 etc. by now. Personally I would pay for updates to allow Urs to hire more developers and speed up the production cycle. For now knowing that the price will not change is a comforting thought, for I can buy at any time without regrets I spent more money than I could.

Actually Urs could experiment with 'update donations'. Every major update would offer making an optional donation, and see how it goes.

[pdxindy]

I think I've spent... e900 on U-he and increasingly it nags that a new product is pitched at the same price to me as a first time customer.

You just want stuff cheaper that's all... people put constant pressure to get more and give less...

[ChiTown24]

I'm OK with devs who don't do sales or promotions {regularly, infrequently or not at all}. I do think devs who sell a range of instruments/fx should have a customer loyalty scheme in place, with tiered discounts ideally. PSP & Fabfilter come to mind, they have the best customer loyalty offers and discounts. Even when stuff goes on sale, which is infrequently, the customer loyalty discount rates still apply ON TOP of the sale price. These guys are selling top tier plugins too, so you know, it's possible to code high-end stuff and still offer significant savings for existing customers. This has worked out well for them, because I've bought some of their plugins - at the customer loyalty price - that I wouldn't have bothered with at the intro price, the sale price, or the normal price.

But U-he not offering the same scheme is not something I'd single them out for. I own all the U-he plugs except for Satin and Zebra HZ. There's a few devs who's plugin suites I own entirely or almost entirely, who haven't been giving me any customer loyalty discounts either. I wish they did of course.

What stings and when it becomes really a problem is when a dev offers a great deal to someone who hasn't spent a penny with them, while the guy who has spent hundreds of euros is treated no better. Sometimes it's really bothered me, depends on the deal/circumstances, but it's not something I've noticed with U-he. I don't know why. On the otherhand, some devs have really kicked me in the balls by devaluing their own product for a paid update... wanting to charge me a very expensive upgrade price while offering the whole thing to the new guy for the same price as the upgrade. I end up not upgrading and just sticking with using the older version, and 'boycotting' the dev at least until such time that they offer me a better price {which sometimes doesn't happen} or I see a used license for the right price {which adds value to their plugin, that it has re-sale value, but at the same time it's extra income they could have received direct from me}. I'm a hobbyist, I pay for my software, but I'm not a cash-cow waiting to be milked - I'll do without if I'm feeling milked. And I'll be generous when my loyalty is recognised in good discounts on the apps and plugins.

Apologies if any of this has already been stated, didn't read the whole thread.
Also meant as just a general comment on loyalty discounts rather than something specific about U-he. Looking forward to future U-he developments

[fluffy_little_something]

Like, if you bought 1 product, you get 10% off the second. If you bought 2 products, you get 20% off the third, and so on...

[Tp3]

It does devalue the plugin, esp when it comes to resale. I have a personal and recent example:

Well, if YOU FEEL it devalues the plug, it will... and when companies like those you mentioned "sale away" EVERY WEEK, it can. and it will.

[masterhiggins]

PSP and Fabfilter's loyalty programs aren't ideal, either, IMO. They're certainly a step in the right direction, but there is a slight issue. They give everyone the same discount whether or not they bought them directly from PSP/Fabfilter or at a 50% discount on the secondhand marketplace. It just seems odd that the same price would be given to someone who's been supporting them for years vs someone who just bought them all off someone at an insane rate due to financial issues/etc. If they bought them all of the developer directly then it makes more sense. Otherwise...not ideal, either. I much prefer what they've already been doing (offering an early-adopter discount, which is really a no-brainer purchase). I wouldn't change anything about it. I would just continue focus on great plugins. If people want to buy rock-bottom price plugins there are plenty of other options.

-Sam

[ChiTown24]

PSP and Fabfilter's loyalty programs aren't ideal, either, IMO. They're certainly a step in the right direction, but there is a slight issue. They give everyone the same discount whether or not they bought them directly from PSP/Fabfilter or at a 50% discount on the secondhand marketplace. It just seems odd that the same price would be given to someone who's been supporting them for years vs someone who just bought them all off someone at an insane rate due to financial issues/etc. If they bought them all of the developer directly then it makes more sense. Otherwise...not ideal, either. I much prefer what they've already been doing (offering an early-adopter discount, which is really a no-brainer purchase). I wouldn't change anything about it. I would just continue focus on great plugins. If people want to buy rock-bottom price plugins there are plenty of other options.

-Sam

I disagree. I think at that stage we're entering the realm of textbook begrudgery.

That a plugin can be re-sold helps it maintain value. If plugins couldn't be re-sold, they may not be purchased in the first place. And when a plugin is re-sold, the purchaser shouldn't become a second class licensee. If anyone should be bothered by a licensee, who bought his license used, still receiving a customer loyalty discount...then it should be PSP & Fabfilter themselves IMO. I think it only strengthens my point that, as well as offering these right-on customer loyalty schemes - even to those who bought their license used - these guys can still code some of the best plugins in their class and still make a healthy living. The net result of these customer loyalty schemes, as offered by PSP & Fabfilter and as I previously stated - is that they'll actually sell more plugins than they would have otherwise.

If you're inclined to be bothered by this, there's nothing stopping you holding out for a used license yourself. It's also a strange POV to hold considering I have so often seen your name in the marketplace, selling plugins, sometimes plugins you got for free. but hey, lets not dredge up the past