Waves Abbey Road J37 Tape

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

So here is another test ,now using 15 IPS mode (flattest frequency response,abbey roads preset) with tape hitting on almoust every track to 0 db,once again RMS compansated using Voxengo Span RMS analizer on each track.
sorry for the cheesy sounding exemple,i love the 80's

you will hear the dry version,then the 15 IPS and finally 7.5 IPS

https://soundcloud.com/sergiofrias/80s- ... ips-vs-7-5

Again, your unprocessed mix sounds much, much better. The J37 is adding a harsh distortion that I'm just not liking in these examples. The 15ips version might have seen a slight improvement towards the bottom of the spectrum, but the high end distortion just sounds bad IMO. The 7.5ips version did absolutely nothing for me.

[sergiofrias]

Hm... don't want to step on anyone's toes... but for all I know about magnetic recording, the overbiased curves are pretty much the contrary of what should happen in the real world. Overbias creates more overall flux, since the bias signal is typically a multiple of the input signal (often 4 to 5x the amplitude). This increased flux - when overdone - leads to high-frequency saturation and self-erasure on the tape. One usually wouldn't want to go that far, but the tendency remains.
When biasing a tape, one wants to linearize the process, which is: get the least distortion for the entire dynamic range, and hopefully: independent of frequency. In reality, there is a 'sweet spot': underbias has the most HF content but creates crossover distortion, since the operational curve (within the hysteresis loop) isn't linearised, especially not in the central region. Overbias manages to linearize the curve, resulting in low overall THD figures, but at the expense of reduced treble. Most machine manufacturers go for a compromise and set it somewhere in the middle, with a minimum tolerable level of THD (especially the 5th harmonic, as a function of crossover distortion) and good treble response. The reason why some people prefer slightly more bias often results from the 'warmer' overall tone; less 5th harmonic, less overall treble, and often fatter low end.
Therefore I'm a bit puzzled why your figures show a brighter top end. Perhaps someone knowing these EMI/Studer machines or someone from Waves could explain? Might be that I've overlooked something.

@sergiofrias: do you have THD figures at hand? Perhaps 1k, 10k & 15k, at either bias setting? Could also be plots of the resulting harmonics series. That would help to clarify.

BTW: the low end looks right to me. Massive coil/pole-piece interaction visible, apparently. I personally like that.

Sasha you seem correct,maybe Waves got it wrong,(i dont know)i'm intrigued as well...i found a image that shows a real life exemple more clearly:




as for your request here is some THD that i took from J37 at diferent bias,i can give more tests if you wish:

[sergiofrias]

sasha,even more weirder it gets as i choose +3 Bias it increases the Harmonic distortion,(from my understanding as the bias is increased ,the distortion is lowered),when i choose +5 bias it remains the same as NOM bias...now that's weird...maybe the real machine is weird i dont know

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[sascha]

as for your request here is some THD that i took from J37 at diferent bias,i can give more tests if you wish:

Yeah, interesting. When you increase bias, distortion goes up, but it should go down instead. Well...

That reminds me to post our test files next week. We used these to obatin freq response, THD, crosstalk etc. from real machines. Might as help to detect aliasing when applied to plugins. In our case, it also helped to detect magnetized heads by showing the first harmonics (still have to demag Clemens' 1/4" he brought in one day...).

[hibidy]

I haven't followed the whole thread because I thought there was another one on this but are we saying that there isn't anything to be overly (if at all) impressed with this? I have satin, I really like it and demoed it pretty extensively, I don't really feel like being tempted.

[J4R1O]

Just got this from Waves Tech Support:

"...the animation in J-37 for the spinning reels are not supported with Sonar X1.
Apart from this, everything is working properly."

I find that very instersting, even though I have no plans to purchase J-37. So, X1 is "out-of-date", at least what comes to Waves' plug-ins animation.

Just wondering how long Waves' future plug-in's VU meters work properly...

[NewActs]

Really surprised at how much distortion J37 adds. I think Satin has a better all around sound in comparison

[jmasno5]

You guys are great! Spinning reels. LOL By the way I have the Kramer Master Tape and like it a lot. The J37 is for Beatle fans. Waves knows that anything they come out with that The Fab Four used will sell. They got me with the REDD plugin. Smart people at Waves.

[MFXxx]

You guys are great! Spinning reels. LOL By the way I have the Kramer Master Tape and like it a lot. The J37 is for Beatle fans. Waves knows that anything they come out with that The Fab Four used will sell. They got me with the REDD plugin. Smart people at Waves.

Ah but REDD is the secret sauce and so much more fab than the four

[hibidy]

I love my Redd.

[sascha]

That reminds me to post our test files next week. We used these to obatin freq response, THD, crosstalk etc. from real machines.

Just in case someone still wants to test drive a collection of tape plugins (+ against real-world ones), here again is our quite-revealing test setup as downloadable zip:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5530015

Instructions in the first post.

[Harry_HH]

That reminds me to post our test files next week. We used these to obatin freq response, THD, crosstalk etc. from real machines.

Just in case someone still wants to test drive a collection of tape plugins (+ against real-world ones), here again is our quite-revealing test setup as downloadable zip:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5530015

Instructions in the first post.

I know that it doesn't belong to their company policy,
but it would be interesenting to hear Waves developer comments
the discurse above. I think this should be part of the present day
transparent communication culture. H.

[kmonkey]

I know i will be flamed again but i am going to say it again.

This tape emu is worst i ever heard. It is something as digital mushy mushy degrading plugin. It is sounding like a overdriven waveshaping saturator, something similar i can get from Ableton Saturator. I don't like it at all, it is destroying mix completely.

I know i know, people gonna say me i am driving it to hot..well to hot my a**. Most popular emulators i can drive to maximum, they don't sound good but they don't sound that bad not even remotely. I can get far more usable range of tape effect from other plugins then from this one.

Actually it does remind me on Waves NLS distortion but just higher i mean more of it.

From the examples posted here i see other people are getting sameish result in the way - their mixes sound way better without then with that plugin..imho

Delay is nice though..

[kmonkey]

That reminds me to post our test files next week. We used these to obatin freq response, THD, crosstalk etc. from real machines.

Just in case someone still wants to test drive a collection of tape plugins (+ against real-world ones), here again is our quite-revealing test setup as downloadable zip:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5530015

Instructions in the first post.

I know that it doesn't belong to their company policy,
but it would be interesenting to hear Waves developer comments
the discurse above. I think this should be part of the present day
transparent communication culture. H.

Comment on what exactly? Is this test useful or is their tape emu on pair with hardware or what exactly?

AFAIK this test is perfect near perfect.