New DIVA components

[Aiynzahev]

DIVA's envelopes are good, but I have often wished for Zebra's attack punch in DIVA. I'm no expert, but I suspect DIVA's envelopes are an area where more work could really benefit authenticity, since many analog synths had very punchy / snappy attacks.

I am not mistaken it's not actually the envelopes that make Diva slow. I might be wrong, but I remember U-he saying in the past that it was something to do with how Diva calculates it's voices.

But your right, all analog synths I can remember using have had punchy envelopes, but I've used mostly newer ones. But take the Korg Mono/poly polysix emulations, pretty quick envelopes. Same with Imposcar.

[spacecult]

Typically (on an analog synth, anyway) attack and decay curves will be different types. As a side effect, this gives you at least some choice of envelope curve feel by choosing negative or positive modulation by the envelope. Assuming Diva models this, so should work here, too.

Maybe try multiplying two envelopes together, also, to get different behavior. This works pretty well for pitch and filter modulations but unfortunately the VCA seems hardwired to env1 or gate.

But, for the sake of direct control and more truly manageable flexibility, I am all for an emulation of some fancy envelopes such as in an esq-1/sq80 or something else even more tricked out. Some crazy digital multistage with assignable loop would be amazing.

[DrGonzo]

Maybe try multiplying two envelopes together, also, to get different behavior. This works pretty well for pitch and filter modulations

This is actually a very good advice. The modulation modulators are clearly underrated in Diva.

/C

[pdxindy]

Maybe try multiplying two envelopes together, also, to get different behavior. This works pretty well for pitch and filter modulations

This is actually a very good advice. The modulation modulators are clearly underrated in Diva.

/C

Indeed... they give some added flexibility to envelopes... you can multiply an env by itself or by the other envelope and of course you have 3 different env types which behave differently... you can add both envelopes together to create further env shapes...

[Sendy]

You can also modulate volume by an additional parameter beyond Env 1 or gate... That opens up possibilities. I was even able to get a quantized volume envelope (oh man video games) by setting Env 1 up in a self-defeating way and using Env 2 through the quantize module.

[Aiynzahev]

I tried the multiplication last night. To be honest I'm not sure if it was any snappier than the normal ADS/R envelopes but I was on a laptop at the time. I also ended up turning the amp volume very low and using multiplier in the velocity window just under it, I thought it made a difference but I need to spend more time with this. Using gate as trigger Is fast, but a bit messy too. Like I said I think it's to do with how the voices themselves work in Diva, Urs will have to chime in to confirm.

It would be good if the amp section would accept multiply as source at least. Setting it to OSC reset works very well, but then you have a machine gun effect which is not nice for a lot of things.

Oh I see your post Sendy. I think we're describing the same thing, yes.

[Sendy]

To be honest multiplication never works out for me how I expect it to. For example, I use Add to add a parameter to it's-self and double it. For EG. - you can double the modwheel's range that way, for really wide ranging sweeps. But if you use Multiply for the same thing you don't get any increase in range.

[Aiynzahev]

It could be limited internally. I don't always get the result I think I will either when using that section. Still pretty neat to have it, so many synths don't.

[Aiynzahev]

You know what I might be wrong, maybe I didn't try multiply yesterday, (what did I do yesterday? lol) or I could have done something wrong. Anyway trying it now yes, this is very good! Thanks for this discussion guys. kids are frying my brain these days.

[Nokenoku]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one, who struggles a bit with the envelopes.
I just did some basses I really like though (with the analogue env ... and MS20-rev2 and uhbie [liked those two filters the most for that bass-sound]):
https://app.box.com/s/dswlmpzt0snvmchu62gy
(Those 2 get a lot better, if you compress them afterwards!)

I think the main issue for me is how the controls react (especially decay).
It's too hard to hit the right amount ... a lot harder than with any other synth I've used so far.
I would not say, the envelopes of DIVA are too slow though. "Most snappy" doesn't mean you have to use "the fastest" envelopes at all.


Speaking of linear and exponential behaviour, I personally love the way it's done in the ImageLine-plugins, where you can smoothly adjust the behaviour of any curve-part.
(I think, Zebra actually has something similar, if I'm not confusing it right now. Doesn't have it installed atm.)
Sure, those are clearly digital envelopes without any analog origin, but they are very flexible, and it's very easy to hit the right amount of "snappyness" with them.

After all I think something like this would be a nice addition.

[pdxindy]

I tried the multiplication last night. To be honest I'm not sure if it was any snappier than the normal ADS/R envelopes but I was on a laptop at the time. I also ended up turning the amp volume very low and using multiplier in the velocity window just under it, I thought it made a difference but I need to spend more time with this. Using gate as trigger Is fast, but a bit messy too. Like I said I think it's to do with how the voices themselves work in Diva, Urs will have to chime in to confirm.

It would be good if the amp section would accept multiply as source at least. Setting it to OSC reset works very well, but then you have a machine gun effect which is not nice for a lot of things.

Oh I see your post Sendy. I think we're describing the same thing, yes.

Amp cannot accept multiply cause multiply is not assured of ending at 0... 2 LFO's in multiply for example...

Sometimes I use Env2 on volume mod to change the basic amp env shape. There is a fair bit of variety possible there.

I wouldn't mind if lfo's had a one cycle option so they could function as envelopes... with the default waveforms and rate mod they can create lots of shapes. That would not add anything to the gui but give some extra flexibility

And of course, a 4th envelope type would be interesting

[aaron aardvark]

Has anyone noticed that a real Oberheim (like what Rush used 30+ years ago, like their song "Countdown".......I think) has a very unique LFO sound? I wouldn't swear to it, but didn't Rush use the OB-x for the lead synth in that song?

You can see an Oberheim OB-x being played in at least part of this video:



Does any one know how to get that sound with Diva or Zebra? Would the multiplier thing help give that unique LFO sound? I have yet to hear anything other than a real Oberheim get that LFO sound (unless I'm mistaken).

[trusampler]

That's the one

[Sendy]

Imagine if there were more modules you could load into the second pane (where the feedback or HPF goes). For example, a simple gain stage, or a wave folder, or pre-filter effets/distortion.

[Blue-eyed Blonde Ape]

As I did a one on one comparison with Monark, conclusion was not envelopes but oscillators, edgier Oscillators gave a perceived "faster" punchier attack.
I bet that would be true when comparing old MS-20 vs new, new sounds more edgy, hence more punchy.
Another factor to bear in mind if you are modulating filter and hence envelope doesn't sound as fast as on other synths is 0DF
You could be used to softsynths behavior, that's 1df and that's a "law" to you and smooth resonant transition is not something you expect and you don't like it and perceive it as less "punchy" attacks.
That would be true for most who first started to mess with synthesizers on computers.

Here's an example, first is 1DF, second 0DF

https://soundcloud.com/blue-eyedblondea ... t-1dfvs0df