Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!
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- KVRAF
- 5948 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Melbourne, Australia
Most meaning I can't test every situation, but for what I have tested PDC is working.tooneba wrote:What is the meaning of your "most"? Don't most people use automation or midi clock related plugin? huh, nice.
... space is the place ...
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- KVRist
- 487 posts since 19 Jan, 2003
There is definitely wonkiness when you add a plugin without latency as the last device in the chain.
Very easy to repro, for example using voxengo latency delay (simple plugin that on default settings just adds 10k samples of latency and nothing else - so good for this kind of test):
Use polysynth to make a little square wave block, or whatever easily visible waveform, bounce it to audio on a new track, then on that new track:
Add one latency delay, bounce to new track, in time
Add a second latency delay, bounce to new track, in time
Add a bitwig eq to the end, bounce to new track, late
Delete the second latency delay, bounce to new track, early (!)
Delete the bitwig eq, bounce to new track, in time again
Very easy to repro, for example using voxengo latency delay (simple plugin that on default settings just adds 10k samples of latency and nothing else - so good for this kind of test):
Use polysynth to make a little square wave block, or whatever easily visible waveform, bounce it to audio on a new track, then on that new track:
Add one latency delay, bounce to new track, in time
Add a second latency delay, bounce to new track, in time
Add a bitwig eq to the end, bounce to new track, late
Delete the second latency delay, bounce to new track, early (!)
Delete the bitwig eq, bounce to new track, in time again
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 26 Mar, 2014
Hello friends. I also did the latency test.
And I'm very happy with Bitwig Studio. The PDC it is very good, not perfect, but it is very very good!
In the first test I did with Ableton Live 9.
I used the synthesizer: Sylenth1 + Cableguys VolumeShaper 3 (to create the Sidechain 1/4 - in beat sync)
In the first test: not used any more plugin.
In the second test: used with FabFilter MB.
In the third test: used with Brainworx XL V2 (is a plugin that requires a lot of processing)
In the fourth test: I used, iZotope Ozone 5 Maximizer
Tests in Ableton Live, have much latency. You can see the images.
Then I did the same tests on Bitwig Studio. And he did MUCH better.
See that in Ableton Live with the plugin Brainworx XL V2 there is a much higher latency.
Also without any plugin Live features a small latency.
Bitwig Studio exists in latency, but very very little.
I liked it!
And I'm very happy with Bitwig Studio. The PDC it is very good, not perfect, but it is very very good!
In the first test I did with Ableton Live 9.
I used the synthesizer: Sylenth1 + Cableguys VolumeShaper 3 (to create the Sidechain 1/4 - in beat sync)
In the first test: not used any more plugin.
In the second test: used with FabFilter MB.
In the third test: used with Brainworx XL V2 (is a plugin that requires a lot of processing)
In the fourth test: I used, iZotope Ozone 5 Maximizer
Tests in Ableton Live, have much latency. You can see the images.
Then I did the same tests on Bitwig Studio. And he did MUCH better.
See that in Ableton Live with the plugin Brainworx XL V2 there is a much higher latency.
Also without any plugin Live features a small latency.
Bitwig Studio exists in latency, but very very little.
I liked it!
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- KVRist
- 487 posts since 19 Jan, 2003
There isn't noticeable latency when it's working. The OP describes a (pretty easy to replicate) bug in the PDC. Having played around with it a bit more, it does seem like the automation PDC and the audio PDC are not entirely in sync in some situations. But, in the basic case of adding one high latency plugin and doing some obvious volume automation, it does seem to be properly compensated.
So it is tough to say for sure, but my impression at the moment is that there are some bugs with audio PDC that don't appear to affect automation PDC in the same way.
I got tired of fiddling with it and moved on to playing with the rest of it, IMO not worth revisiting until they fix the obvious bug that's currently there.
(To return to the noticeable latency thing, I also noticed that you seem to gain or lose 1 or 2 samples when bouncing occasionally, but I haven't investigated that in detail at this point).
So it is tough to say for sure, but my impression at the moment is that there are some bugs with audio PDC that don't appear to affect automation PDC in the same way.
I got tired of fiddling with it and moved on to playing with the rest of it, IMO not worth revisiting until they fix the obvious bug that's currently there.
(To return to the noticeable latency thing, I also noticed that you seem to gain or lose 1 or 2 samples when bouncing occasionally, but I haven't investigated that in detail at this point).
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- KVRist
- 224 posts since 23 Aug, 2011
If you add a few high latency plugins, then you will get latency on the display. The transport goes out by a huge amount.
The buy happens when you've automated a plugin, then put a high latency plugin before it, not after it. The automation sounds out of time.
The buy happens when you've automated a plugin, then put a high latency plugin before it, not after it. The automation sounds out of time.
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Sprocket-Audio Sprocket-Audio https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=325466
- KVRist
- 44 posts since 26 Mar, 2014 from Bristol, UK
Hmm. I dunno.. I feel adding 1 vst, 1 latency inducing EQ, and then 1 Bitwig plug in a a chain isnt very rare case! :p This immediately throws it off for me by the length of a whole note (while all keeping in midi, no bouncing). This is certainly a bug as someone stated above though as its fine if you add in a different order (VST, then Bitwig effect, then EQ for example). - Im not even using automation here.. I dont have to to hear this problem.ZenPunkHippy wrote:Most meaning I can't test every situation, but for what I have tested PDC is working.tooneba wrote:What is the meaning of your "most"? Don't most people use automation or midi clock related plugin? huh, nice.
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- KVRAF
- 24420 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
I wouldn't be using a latency-inducing EQ when tracking in the first place. It's bad form. Linear-phase EQs are generally better suited for mixing and mastering purposes, after the whole song is written and automation done etc...
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- KVRist
- 224 posts since 23 Aug, 2011
Irrelevant. This is called a "test", it's a way to show that PDC doesn't work. Please don't fill this thread up with any more of this unnecessary and irrelevant drivel. Nobody cares about your mixing knowledge.EvilDragon wrote:I wouldn't be using a latency-inducing EQ when tracking in the first place. It's bad form. Linear-phase EQs are generally better suited for mixing and mastering purposes, after the whole song is written and automation done etc...
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- KVRist
- 224 posts since 23 Aug, 2011
Yeah, it's certainly not a rare case. The truth is, when we're making a tune, we don't want to have to worry about what order we put plugins in, and how much latency they introduce. We just want to experiment and throw them on as we see fit, and not have to worry about breaking the DAWs timing.Sprocket-Audio wrote:Hmm. I dunno.. I feel adding 1 vst, 1 latency inducing EQ, and then 1 Bitwig plug in a a chain isnt very rare case! :p This immediately throws it off for me by the length of a whole note (while all keeping in midi, no bouncing). This is certainly a bug as someone stated above though as its fine if you add in a different order (VST, then Bitwig effect, then EQ for example). - Im not even using automation here.. I dont have to to hear this problem.ZenPunkHippy wrote:Most meaning I can't test every situation, but for what I have tested PDC is working.tooneba wrote:What is the meaning of your "most"? Don't most people use automation or midi clock related plugin? huh, nice.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 7 posts since 4 Jun, 2005
virtualmark wrote:
Yeah, it's certainly not a rare case. The truth is, when we're making a tune, we don't want to have to worry about what order we put plugins in, and how much latency they introduce. We just want to experiment and throw them on as we see fit, and not have to worry about breaking the DAWs timing.
It's exactly what I wanted to say. If you want to have a tight groove, if you want to use parallel processing, etc you need a solid latency plugin compensation.
I will make a video showing the problem again with different plugins.
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- KVRer
- 19 posts since 8 Feb, 2007
Good I didn't notice the PDC problems until after my purchase.
I really hope this gets sorted out. I've been waiting almost 2 years for a DAW with proper PDC.
If not I may throw my money at Steinberg again
I really hope this gets sorted out. I've been waiting almost 2 years for a DAW with proper PDC.
If not I may throw my money at Steinberg again
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- KVRist
- 224 posts since 23 Aug, 2011
You've already bought Bitwig?drhawk wrote:Good I didn't notice the PDC problems until after my purchase.
I really hope this gets sorted out. I've been waiting almost 2 years for a DAW with proper PDC.
If not I may throw my money at Steinberg again
Yeah I have to say, the PDC in Cubase is rock solid. I don't really like Steinberg as a company, but I can't knock the timing in Cubase.
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 27 Mar, 2014
...i really don´t undestand how they could not have adressed that problem.
So it doesn´t only look like Ableton it even has the same bugs..
They had the longest beta phase ever and always excused that with the argument of getting the Software perfect before releasing...
Well...i hope they get it sorted quick...we don´t need 2 Abletons on the market
i think the software has a lot of potential...just not sure if the guys can pull it off anymore
So it doesn´t only look like Ableton it even has the same bugs..
They had the longest beta phase ever and always excused that with the argument of getting the Software perfect before releasing...
Well...i hope they get it sorted quick...we don´t need 2 Abletons on the market
i think the software has a lot of potential...just not sure if the guys can pull it off anymore
Last edited by Labalaia on Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.