Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

[ZenPunkHippy]

It's.

A.

Bug.

How many times does it have to be repeated?

You can tell that it's a bug because certain steps causes intermittent PDC problems.

[EvilDragon]

Please don't fill this thread up with any more of this unnecessary and irrelevant drivel. Nobody cares about your mixing knowledge.

Props to you sir for being extremely diplomatic. Wow.

[virtualmark]

Please don't fill this thread up with any more of this unnecessary and irrelevant drivel. Nobody cares about your mixing knowledge.

Props to you sir for being extremely diplomatic. Wow.

Your comment totally missed the point, sorry if that offended you. I know you were only trying to teach us mixing skills, but that isn't the focus of this thread.

[EvilDragon]

I wasn't trying to teach you anything, but whatever, man.

[Sprocket-Audio]

Just to respond to EvilDragon.. thanks for your input, and I understand what you're saying, however, at least with the style of music I'm making (Psytrance), using a linear phase eq on a bassline is needed IMO as its the only way (i've found at least) to EQ the low end of a bassline without causing quite noticeable tonal changes.. Simply put, the same eq settings on the bassline when set to 'digital' mode sounds out of key with the kick, which I spend a long time tuning to match. I put it back to linear phase, and bam, sounds tight and in tune again.. If there are other practices / plugins / modes I don't know about that can help me achieve the same results with lees or no latency, please send me a PM (So as not to derail the thread any more) as I'd love to know about them

[EvilDragon]

Fair enough... I'm more of a rock/metal/progressive/ambiental electronica kind of guy, so there's genres I'm definitely not really acquainted with. There are definitive benefits of linear phase EQs, for sure, but I usually just keep them on the master bus and after the whole song was already pre-mixed. That's just me though.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Quite upset by this. Did the simp test myself. I put Reverberate on a track with high latency (you can chose), then effectrix after it. Played a simple pulsing sound on the downbeats with effectrix repeaters on those same downbeats. With high latency effectrix misses the beats, meaning that the incoming audio is late on it's grid.

So plug-ins DO NOT compensate for latency and go out of time EXACTLY like Ableton Live. Every other DAW I've used compensates this correctly. How many beta testers were there. I'm somewhat shocked.

[virtualmark]

Quite upset by this. Did the simp test myself. I put Reverberate on a track with high latency (you can chose), then effectrix after it. Played a simple pulsing sound on the downbeats with effectrix repeaters on those same downbeats. With high latency effectrix misses the beats, meaning that the incoming audio is late on it's grid.

So plug-ins DO NOT compensate for latency and go out of time EXACTLY like Ableton Live. Every other DAW I've used compensates this correctly. How many beta testers were there. I'm somewhat shocked.

Yeah it's a huge disappointment, this was the most important thing for me. I messaged support yesterday but no response yet. I basically told them the scenario and asked if it's going to be fixed. Because if it's like this by design, I'm out.

[Jakob / Cableguys]

It's a pity to hear that Bitwig has the same issues here as Live. At least for our plugins, for VolumeShaper, FilterShaper, but also for Kickstart, there's a workaround which works in Live (I have not checked with Bitwig yet, though).

So, to summarize, FilterShaper and VolumeShaper are synced to the timing information that is provided by the host. Sadly, Live does not take PDC into account here and thus the timing information provided by Live can be wrong. We've already talked about this with Ableton in 2011 and are glad about anyone who bugs them about this issue.

As a workaround, you can use FilterShaper's or VolumeShaper's oscilloscope to move the waveform to the left until timing matches again (use the arrow buttons below the waveform; SHIFT-click for precise adjustments).

A more reliable workaround is to set up a MIDI track which plays a note at the beginning of a bar, route this track to FilterShaper or VolumeShaper and set the LFO to one of its "Retriggered" modes. This resulted in correct timing in all our tests.

Check also http://www.cableguys.de/faq.html

[Labalaia]

would just be nice to get some sort of response from them....
But as we have seen in the past...they are not very good in responding to questions or keeping promises

I don´t want to bash them that bad because i think they´ve done a lot of work and thought out some nice features.

For me the products is just not there yet and the way they as a company treat this whole thing over all the month gets more and more questionable...

[dom@bitwig]

Just a quick note, so nobody has to panic: the pdc is designed to compensate the audio, the automation, the timing information for plugins. Most of it works great, but there's currently a bug with the last one, for example and there might be other scenarios that don't behave correctly, as pdc and time/routing stuff can be a real pita Anyway, the problems are not by design but bugs and we will check out all scenarios that don't work as they should and fix it.
Normally everything that can be reproduced reliable is fixable, esp. as the code base is still fresh...

Cheers,
Dom

[kurasu]

So the problem you seem to be having is that the timing-data provided to the plug-ins is too early if you place it after some plug-ins which are causing a delay, is that correct?

I will look into this and see why its happening.

[virtualmark]

Just a quick note, so nobody has to panic: the pdc is designed to compensate the audio, the automation, the timing information for plugins. Most of it works great, but there's currently a bug with the last one, for example and there might be other scenarios that don't behave correctly, as pdc and time/routing stuff can be a real pita Anyway, the problems are not by design but bugs and we will check out all scenarios that don't work as they should and fix it.
Normally everything that can be reproduced reliable is fixable, esp. as the code base is still fresh...

Cheers,
Dom

Thanks for the reply, I'm glad that you are aware of it. For me, the automation and the display went out of sync, so it might not be just the plugin timing. I automated a filter cutoff over a drum beat, so that it opened up on just the snares. When I added a high latency eq in front of the filter, it went out of time.

The display was out of time when the eq was both in front and behind the filter. I've tried it on a new project and it's easily reproducible. It's a shame that I can't save the project and send it to you.

[Labalaia]

yes same scenario here...

i´ve put a filter on a loop which opens only on the 2 and 4 beat. as soon as i put a high latency plugin into the chain the display is off.
As soon as i put it in front of the filter the timing of the audio/Automation is off

[tooneba]

If you add a few high latency plugins, then you will get latency on the display. The transport goes out by a huge amount.

I think it's working as inteded. Player will play earlier timing if display showed earlier time position than the actual playback timing. You need to hit keyboard earlier because of the latency.